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evmiller: Actually I've thought about this myself. This could work, but the game would have to be designed from the start to use a physical reference manual to play the game. Basically, all the in-game reference materials are stripped out of the game such as maps, tables, lists and enemy stats and such and placed in the manual. The game could be played without the manual, but it be near impossible to do anything without the insider info the manual provides. If the manual is big enough, it won't be worth the effort to scan every page, and players won't want the expense of printing it out either. However, if this caught on, games would be sold as a book with the DVD/CD in the back cover. It could work if disigned properly and used with the game genres where scanning through a book to help solve something would be fun.

I'm having a really hard time thinking up a way that this could be implemented without annoying a lot of people and sapping a lot of fun out of a game. Maybe there are a few small genres out there where this could kind of work, but for most games having to reference a manual through the game would absolutely destroy immersion and game-flow, simply making the game not particularly fun to play.
If the manual is big enough, it won't be worth the effort to scan every page, and players won't want the expense of printing it out either.
Well, that would never work, as people are always prepared to scan books even when they have over a thousand pages. And with double monitors becoming more and more popular, who would ever really need to print the thing out?
Besides that, honest gamers who actually buy the game are not going to be happy with that. What happens when they lose the manual?
Just from reading around the forum, I have to ask this. Is it possible to enjoy both gog.com and steam here? Or am I in the minority with liking both?
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Wishbone: Actually, all a pirate needs to do is make a crack that bypasses the check completely. Much easier, all around.
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evmiller: Actually I've thought about this myself. This could work, but the game would have to be designed from the start to use a physical reference manual to play the game. Basically, all the in-game reference materials are stripped out of the game such as maps, tables, lists and enemy stats and such and placed in the manual. The game could be played without the manual, but it be near impossible to do anything without the insider info the manual provides. If the manual is big enough, it won't be worth the effort to scan every page, and players won't want the expense of printing it out either. However, if this caught on, games would be sold as a book with the DVD/CD in the back cover. It could work if disigned properly and used with the game genres where scanning through a book to help solve something would be fun.

I'd say that depends very much on your definition of "fun". It's been done, you know, and I found it terribly annoying. Some of the old SSI RPGs worked like that (Champions Of Krynn, for instance). You'd meet some guy in a dungeon, and the game would tell you "his speech is recorded as journal entry 78". Then you had to leaf through the manual to look up journal entry 78 to find out what the hell he was saying. That really detracted from my enjoyment of the game. Especially when it turned out that he wasn't saying anything interesting anyway.
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anoffday: Just from reading around the forum, I have to ask this. Is it possible to enjoy both gog.com and steam here? Or am I in the minority with liking both?

I don't think you are. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority in disliking Steam, and I doubt there are any active users of the forum who dislike GOG, so...
Post edited March 30, 2009 by Wishbone
Just from reading around the forum, I have to ask this. Is it possible to enjoy both gog.com and steam here? Or am I in the minority with liking both?
Just because you like something, it doesn't mean you have to become another fanboy/"yes" man flunky for them - refusing to see or accept that they have done something wrong. And you certainly see enough of that on the Steam forums from both regular users and the moderators - so much so that at times, it's all I can do not to laugh.
I like Steam, but when they do something wrong or stupid, I'm not just going to accept it because Valve thought it was a good idea. I'll tell them why it's a bad idea in the off chance that they can then improve.
Likewise, if GOG ever doing something I consider stupid/wrong, I'll let them know =)
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bansama: Just from reading around the forum, I have to ask this. Is it possible to enjoy both gog.com and steam here? Or am I in the minority with liking both?
<snip>

bansama, please hit reply and use the quote system when replying to people! This will make the person being quoted see it as an unread reply and provides viewers with a link back to the post being quoted. It's overall a much better way of doing it than what you are doing.
Sorry, but no. I have explained my reasons why. I'm sure anyone who is actually following the thread is fully capable of reading posts without needing a link back to them.
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Wishbone: I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority in disliking Steam, and I doubt there are any active users of the forum who dislike GOG, so...

I get the feeling its just you and me Wishbone. (the hating steam thing, not the hating GOG thing! (how could anyone hate GOG?))
Post edited March 30, 2009 by Andy_Panthro
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bansama: Just from reading around the forum, I have to ask this. Is it possible to enjoy both gog.com and steam here? Or am I in the minority with liking both?
Just because you like something, it doesn't mean you have to become another fanboy/"yes" man flunky for them - refusing to see or accept that they have done something wrong. And you certainly see enough of that on the Steam forums from both regular users and the moderators - so much so that at times, it's all I can do not to laugh.
I like Steam, but when they do something wrong or stupid, I'm not just going to accept it because Valve thought it was a good idea. I'll tell them why it's a bad idea in the off chance that they can then improve.
Likewise, if GOG ever doing something I consider stupid/wrong, I'll let them know =)
I think you are overreacting. I think he's just saying that we shouldn't be some GOG exclusive elitist group that rips on Steam all the time. If he isn't saying that then I will say it.
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lotr-sam0711: I think you are overreacting. I think he's just saying that we shouldn't be some GOG exclusive elitist group that rips on Steam all the time. If he isn't saying that then I will say it.

I'm not going to pretend I like Steam to seem less "elitist".
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lotr-sam0711: I think you are overreacting. I think he's just saying that we shouldn't be some GOG exclusive elitist group that rips on Steam all the time. If he isn't saying that then I will say it.
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Wishbone: I'm not going to pretend I like Steam to seem less "elitist".
Fine with me. It just seems a lot of people go out of their way to rip on Steam. Post the word "Steam" on any thread and a 3 page Steam bash-fest ensues.
one of the worst things about steam is that they feel very closed off, instead of proving that they're actively listening to consumers..
Unlike GOG.com which brought back one of my favorite features, listing of popular/good threads. :DDD
Post edited March 30, 2009 by Weclock
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lotr-sam0711: Fine with me. It just seems a lot of people go out of their way to rip on Steam. Post the word "Steam" on any thread and a 3 page Steam bash-fest ensues.

Hmm, is it only me that thinks the word "steam" could be replaced with the words "Fallout 3" and the point would remain the same?
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lotr-sam0711: Fine with me. It just seems a lot of people go out of their way to rip on Steam. Post the word "Steam" on any thread and a 3 page Steam bash-fest ensues.
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Aliasalpha: Hmm, is it only me that thinks the word "steam" could be replaced with the words "Fallout 3" and the point would remain the same?

There are many things that could replace "steam" in that post; Microsoft, Apple, MMO games, Guns, Porn...
But yeah, I have no opinion on steam, as I have had no reason to use it, nor do I hate Fallout 3 either, it's a much more accessible way for me to slip into the Fallout universe than the previous games and actually made me want to play them to get a better more complete picture of the world and its story. Couldn't do it before as playing turn based games usually make me feel like I'm running head-first into walls every 5 meters, sure, he walls break and I can get through but I have to stay and wait till the hurting stops to continue, and then there's another wall. Much better to slow down and pause willingly (as in Baldur's Gate et al) without the wall being there.
There, let the flames take me, I've voiced my opinion on both much-hated topics.
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Miaghstir: Couldn't do it before as playing turn based games usually make me feel like I'm running head-first into walls every 5 meters...

I like turn based, makes it more strategic, far more thinking time. Real time with pause was a great device for some types of RPG though, and I haven't seen it used as well as Baldurs Gate since.
Folks like me would just like some games thrown our way that have some of these quaint, old timey concepts such as top down/isometric viewpoints, turn based combat, etc.
I don't even mind first person perspective in RPGs, I played and liked Arena, Daggerfall, Ultima Underworld 1+2, System shock 1+2...