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Andy_Panthro: I can see this watermarking style being launched to try and avoid P2P piracy (bittorrent), and if it means that steam becomes essentially GOG-like in its distribution (no more internet activation, no more need to have a steam program to monitor your games) then I will be happy with it.

My bad I missed the "watermarking" part (that's what you get for reading press release too rapidely)
Well if really they move from online activation to Watermarking I won't complain; watermarking being the only form or DRM that I can easily accept .
As long of course that watermarked games can be played/reinstalled without Steam and while being 100% offline.
EDIT: False alarm it seems it's just an extra layer of "copy protection" on top of the already existing Steam DRM, no interest for user just a gimmick to try to sell steamwork to editor.
Post edited March 24, 2009 by Gersen
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Elmodiddly: I am shocked, neigh, I am stunned...

"Nay."
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, definition 2: not this merely but also; used to mark addition or substitution of a more emphatic phrase.
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Elmodiddly: Shame on Valve? ? ?
Really! I am shocked, neigh, I am stunned, that amongst these hallowed walls there are still people around who are sheep.
Steam IS DRM !!
a horse is a horse of course of course unless it's elmodiddly
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Gersen: EDIT: False alarm it seems it's just an extra layer of "copy protection" on top of the already existing Steam DRM, no interest for user just a gimmick to try to sell steamwork to editor.

Of course. It's not less DRM, it's more.
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Urb4nZ0mb13: I still don't see how any of this newfangled steamworks stuff is a hassle, let alone Steam.

I'm with you on this. It has always seemed to me that a lot of people dislike Steam simply out of (misguided) principle and not out of any real legitimate reason. Sure Steam is DRM, but to me it is a completely acceptable form of DRM and it has never presented me with any of the "horror story" problems people often describe (and I've been using it nearly since it launched). I really think people are falling into the same rut that they fell into with Starforce, where all of the stories about how it broke drives and wrecked computers in the process of performing its copy protection duties actually turned out to be completely false. I do understand that some people are morally opposed to all forms of DRM, but I honestly feel that is just as unreasonable as companies like EA saddling their games with things like limited online activations. A compromise between the needs of both the consumer and the publisher must be reached and Steam is the closest I have seen to that compromise, inlcuding this new addition to Steamworks.
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bansama: The only hassle I see is the following example:
Say I want to buy Empire Total War. It uses Steamworks (and possibly the regional activation lockout). It's not sold over Steam in Japan, so all I can do is import it. Say I do that at a costly price get it home and find that I can only install and activate it if I live in the US.
I would have bought a brick. Now tell me, why would I risk that when I could theoretically just obtain a dodgy copy?
And just in case it needs stating. I am violently opposed to piracy and pirates. I'm also violently opposed to publisher that code stupid things like this which inevitably only result in people actually needing to break the law. It's pathetic, no matter how you look at it.
Incidentally, I don't want Empire Total War, I didn't enjoy the demo.

I just feel I should point out that what you are describing is not the fault of Valve or Steam, but rather the individual game publisher, who decided to not sell their game in Japan.
Post edited March 24, 2009 by cogadh
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cogadh: I'm with you on this. It has always seemed to me that a lot of people dislike Steam simply out of (misguided) principle and not out of any real legitimate reason. Sure Steam is DRM, but to me...

You claim its a misguided principle, and then you say "Sure Steam is DRM". So, yeah. It just goes to show you can't be too careful.
"but to me..." Your opinion, different from my opinion. Isn't life great.
Steam is DRM, but I still like it.
You do have to admit it's a ton better than what EA did with Spore... which might I add was a horrible disaster.
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cogadh: A compromise between the needs of both the consumer and the publisher must be reached and Steam is the closest I have seen to that compromise, inlcuding this new addition to Steamworks.

I don't see why there should be a compromise. If people dislike the way it's done enough, why should they compromise with what they spend their money on. For the record, I don't mind steam - I won't buy directly from it for the most part, as it's ludicrously overpriced but the system is OK by me. If people feel otherwise, it's absolutely right that they vote with their wallet. If enough people do it Valve will be forced to rethink things, after all, it's our money and they want it.
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Nafe: I don't see why there should be a compromise. If people dislike the way it's done enough, why should they compromise with what they spend their money on. For the record, I don't mind steam - I won't buy directly from it for the most part, as it's ludicrously overpriced but the system is OK by me. If people feel otherwise, it's absolutely right that they vote with their wallet. If enough people do it Valve will be forced to rethink things, after all, it's our money and they want it.

The thing is... Valve makes AWESOME games, but you have to have Steam to play them.
I don't think Valve is going to go out of business or restructure Steam purely based on that because they'll have money rolling in due to their first party titles.
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Wishbone: "As we roll out these features, we continue to look for new ways make PC games easier to create and better for customers to experience."
... and incidentally, tying them all irrevocably to Steam. My, what a surprise :-(

CHSIBM
Besides the fact that my Oddworld gets a nice virtual shelf to be displayed on, it's also why I chose to get Oddworld here, instead of Steam
Post edited March 24, 2009 by lowyhong
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cogadh: A compromise between the needs of both the consumer and the publisher must be reached and Steam is the closest I have seen to that compromise, inlcuding this new addition to Steamworks.
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Nafe: I don't see why there should be a compromise. If people dislike the way it's done enough, why should they compromise with what they spend their money on. For the record, I don't mind steam - I won't buy directly from it for the most part, as it's ludicrously overpriced but the system is OK by me. If people feel otherwise, it's absolutely right that they vote with their wallet. If enough people do it Valve will be forced to rethink things, after all, it's our money and they want it.

Compromise in that there has to be something that will make both the consumers and the publishers happy. Consumers get the games they want without unreasonable restrictions and publishers get the piracy protection they want without hurting their sales. I'm not saying Steam is that compromise, but it is the closest thing I have seen to an acceptable compromise yet. There will always be some who dislike whatever that compromise is, and that is their right, but at some point everyone on both sides of the issue needs to realize when they are being unreasonable. Publishers pulling things like EA did when the SecuROM fiasco blew up is unreasonable. Consumers demanding that all games be DRM free is unreasonable. A reasonable compromise is somewhere in the middle of that. Steam is not quite in the middle (I personally think it leans a little too much on the publisher's side of things) but it is much closer to that happy middle than anything else anyone has come up with.
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lowyhong: CHSIBM

Uhm... What? Haven't come across that one before.
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cogadh: Compromise in that there has to be something that will make both the consumers and the publishers happy.

A CD key is that compromise.
Post edited March 24, 2009 by Wishbone
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JonhMan: The thing is... Valve makes AWESOME games, but you have to have Steam to play them.
I don't think Valve is going to go out of business or restructure Steam purely based on that because they'll have money rolling in due to their first party titles.

Steam cannot rely on Valve's output alone. Theres no guarantee that they will continue to produce high quality titles on a regular basis.
PC gaming is such a changing market, it's very easy to be knocked of your perch.
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lowyhong: CHSIBM
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Wishbone: Uhm... What? Haven't come across that one before.

Couldn't have said it better myself
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Wishbone: Uhm... What? Haven't come across that one before.
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lowyhong: Couldn't have said it better myself

Thank you. You live and you learn :-)