No. If we're all doing that, sure. For the moment I want the thoughts of the person that's more likely to get lynched.

So Hunter is still relatively new? Does this explain why absolutely no one (else) is at all pushing him on his near-complete silence/absence?

Wait, huh? You're reading that post as Nacho defending me toward Hunter and Drealmer?
What I saw happening was Nacho defending Hunter against my very light push ("Aren't you doing the thing now which everyone is telling me is bad?" => "No, what he's doing is totally different!"), and Nacho pushing against Drealmer's town-read of Trent.

Ah! That was the softball I supposedly fumbled. Sorry for finding a straight "no" too boring, but truly and honestly, at the point Nacho asked me "Do you have any opinions about the people who have defended you thus far?", I couldn't give a single meaningful opinion on people defending me (most of it, I think, I read more as trying out hypotheses to see how they fit rather than "defending", but I will definitely go back and reread from your perspective).

Drealmer, you never responded to this. Why not? - And, why were you looking at JMich here, when you later explained to Nacho that "JMich doesn't say/do much D1"?

To clarify the above even further, I did not perceive the question to be solely about you; as I recall there were several people who commented with explanations for why my behaviour was just a newbie mistake. If you reread my answer as, "No, I can't say a single meaningful thing about these people at this time", then you have my full intent.

I don't want to play the foreign language card, because I tend to think I'm pretty damned fluent in English, but I suspect this is partly a matter of some Dutch slipping through in my grammar. The Dutch equivalent to "also" is one of the class of words we overuse a lot in our language. (I had trouble even seeing what's off about my use of "also" in that sentence until Bookwyrm627's post.)

FWIW, only observed the one Oakwood game.

Is there a reason we shouldn't all be posting our thoughts? I was about to do so since I figured that's the way town goes about figuring which wagons are viable.

Anyway, for now:
vote Hunter65536

(I realize this wagon for the moment doesn't seem very hopeful, but I don't understand why not. (I feel his lack of participation is scummy enough to offset the risk of a mislynch not telling us anything, but am willing to be convinced if this is flawed thinking.) There's several other lynch-candidates I would be happy with to various degrees (not restricted solely to those I've commented on so far), and I should be around in the final hours before day's end.)

It's only D1, but I don't like the way this is going. Please remember 7 of us are town. This is not a game where absurd levels of paranoia are warranted...

I see trial won't fly... pity...
@trial, maybe you'd be so kind to change your avatar to a lemming and inspire the rest to give you a push off a cliff? :)

unvote
vote Nacho

I think both are valid, but Nacho would not overreact without some actual game reason. I think his emotional BS was an act to throw me off. Ergo trial likely is a scum PR, and so trial is the best lynch choice. Alas, we want to be nice, so let's be nice. I expect I need not go into too much detail why I'm ok voting Nacho.

heh and heh

Thanks for looking. I did remember it was early when we were all alive. In light of Nacho's later reply I will somewhat retract my phrasing. I did not recall his verbatim comment, and his deflection is possible.

I aim to please us... I also think the counseling joke was a winner... but tetrabrachius and weedy actually do need counseling...

Just so we're clear though Nacho, you know we're in hatefucking territory right?
Because you actually know I'm town, dontcha?

It's quite a pleasure to watch you adjust and learn on the fly.

Late in the "day" muddying the waters too much, by opening wagons that are not going anywhere, is just a subtle way of getting a No Lynch and prolonging town's lack of data. But you know that, you voting a relative lurker you. Was it Nacho voting JMich that inspired you? :) I like imagining you blinking innocently while you ask "am I doing something wrong now?"

Regarding: "There's a significant difference between role speculation and setup speculation, don't you think?"
Nacho asked you that. My memory is not that bad... He first defended you from them, then pushed you gently with that question. By pushing gently I mean he discreetly helped you. Like that scene in highschool movies where the bullies leader sucker punches some kid so his gang won't beat the shit out of him "let's move on gang, he's not worth it". Not too oblique I hope?

Which context by the way, makes your vote doubly smart - Drealmer is now busy with Lift. But Hunter might get around to you.


@all
Tomorrow I won't be able to post early. Should be back home with some hours to go to still adjust vote if needed to get some lynch. For D1 I'm quite convinced of Nacho | Trial. But I will vote to mislynch if needed so we get a flip. And if I'm wrong on the scum team, at least the real scum will be having a blast watching me so far.

How do you know there are only 7 town, why not 8?

Upon re-reading I find this sentence strange. Sorry, I keep coming back to you. Since sentence sounds like you pretending nevet to have been scum. Is that what you are trying to say? Because it is false: you were scum in the lovers game! Did you forget about that? Or did you just write this theatrical "Oh, I wish I would roll scum some time (and I really really didn't roll scum this time, honest!" to appear townier.

On this, however, I agree with trent: you sound awfully sure of that. This sentence can be read as implication, that the 10-th role is not town? How do you know that? Or did you just forget that a 10-th role existed?

It would definitely help the discussion. My only concern is we might be a bit late in the Day for mass reads and we may end up in accusatory gridlocks and miss the chance for a lynch. And of course they'll be a source of WIFOM for Tomorrow, but that happens every time anyway.




As far as I'm concerned, drealmer7 is the best choice atm for reasons I've mentioned. If that doesn't work, I can go for the lurkers (Hunter, JMich), though their flip will be less useful if it's town. I just don't see enough in the Trial/Nacho/Brasas situation to make a definitive judgement since I don't know them at all, I'm not caught up on their past interactions (Trial excluded, I know it's his first game) and it's still Day 1.
I am ready vote for anyone so we can get a lynch Today, it's not like I'm getting any stong town reads, but I do feel better about a drealmer7 lynch, he did a couple of things that just rub me the wrong way.

vote drealmer7



heh

1.) yes I think there's nothing to my lynch and it's silly and brasas, nacho, gogtrial all have actual substance that would make for much better focal points than me/this

2.) I don't recall specific situations, I just know that I often vote no-lynch and there are often a number of people with issues with it that create more of an issue by taking issue with it than there is issue with it itself (I mean, it's like they're scared no lynch is going to happen and we're going to be out a good D1 wagon - if I were actually close to convincing ANYONE about that, then maybe say my no-lynch vote is an issue and anti-town, but, this just seems SILLY.) I know lift is one of them. I'm pretty sure he's been part of a lynch at least once if not a couple times on me on D1 because I am how I am (whether it is about no-lynch or something else.)

3.) hmm okay!
I'll just give a readslist scum -> null -> town

4. Tetrabrachius Smurf (Lift) - he can't let go now, or else he'll look REALLY scummy

10. Singed Smurf (Brasas) - despite nacho saying he is reading different than Oakwood, I feel the exact same Brasas, which doesn't say much because he's obviously got a good town game as scum - so what strikes me as scummy here is the way it seemed that he kept using gogtrial as a shield when he and nacho were trading blows - find it to be pretty damn scummy actually and if he's not scum I'm pretty sure - he seems to be scumtown-hunting, if that term makes sense

8. Perky Smurf (Nachomamma8) - could just be unfamiliarity with playstyle, but as said, some of his stuff doesn't seem to be holding up as much as I'd like it to

6. Sagittarius Smurf (hunterxyz47) - scummier because he should be giving us more,
2. Mayor Smurf (Bookwyrm627)
3. Inscrutable Smurf (JMich)
9. Grumpy Smurf (Darko)
5. Lawyer Smurf (gogtrial34987) - townier because I'm leaning genuine stuff rather than sneakyscum

^ - this group hasn't given me barely anything at all to read or what they have is standard from them and results null - gogtrial waayyyy more than anyone and I'm still reading him as likely town but not writing him off as that by any means

1. Shadow Smurf (trentonlf) - only solid town read but it's just based on previous experience and how I read him, like previously noted

7. Stony Smurf (Drealmer420) - obvitown GOG D1 victim of choice for scummers

I set off alarms ALL OF THE TIME. I think if I wasn't setting off alarms, that that should set off alarms. But, I'm just being me. I don't really think there's as much as there could be useful from my flip because like I said it seems like a weak-ass case. What other alarms strike to you? You don't see potential scum in nacho v brasas?


I'm not sure about anyone else, but yes he is relatively new. Read below...

I just haven't had the time or energy. Been doing all I can to stay afloat and provide meaningful content as it is.

JMICH, DO MORE!!
HUNTER, DO MORE!!!

What is your read on brasas?

But this is how this works. We make decisions, see the flip, re-evaluate our decisions and examine those of others. I don't understand how you can say that.

In Brasas more than Nacho, thanks to some of the latest posts.

Not "pretending to never have been scum here" at all. I absolutely remember the TWO TIMES I've been scum here, no doubt. (and for others unaware I'll elaborate so my position/view is fuller) The first time was ALL SCUM, and I was keen pretty early on that it was 4 of 4, it wasn't a "normal" game for me to "feel" like scum, as I imagine it to be to feel like scum normally.

The lover's game was a not usual game either. Sure, people who've played mafia longer might not see much difference, but for me it was a different thing. I honeslty don't feel like I know what it feels like to be scum in a normal game on here because they weren't normal. I wait for the day we've got 10-15 of us in a pretty normal setup and I draw scum. It's not happened. Also note that those two games were, what, almost a year ago?

Your dramatization of what I said is ridiculously scummy. I think the sentiment was clear about HOW I FEEL (and it is true, I've not been scum in, what I see, as a regular game here) - if I wasn't ABSOLUTELY ARTICULATE WITH EVERY WORD about it to say "except those times when it wasn't a normal game and lala la" it's because I was trying to express HOW I FEEL. If I were scum trying to paint a fabrication of something I'd be a bit more thorough.

You're just looking for things to add to my case. The way you make your post doesn't even sound like you're actually open to hearing my position, you've just decided (that I'm the easiest target) and set on it being that way. Or am I wrong?

because I'm not fully articulating apparently:

" I don't really think there's as much as there could be useful from my flip because like I said it seems like a weak-ass case"

add+ as other flips in this game (namely brasas, nacho, trial)

I think the positions and cases the group will have on those issues (surrounding those 3) is much more meaningful and telling than what's going on with me.

There is literally almost NO substance to the issue. Anyone can say "yeah that was scummy of him with that no-lynch stuff" and vote me, and the read on the wagon is going to be LAMEASSWEAKSAUCE.

Whereas if we focus on brasas or nacho, the reasons for voting and not voting or whatever, MEAN MORE, and we can determine more from the votes on BOTH wagons after the flip in relation to the positions that were held about all that went on. Which was actual game SUBSTANCE, and not whatever this is with me.

Scum would LOVE you to lynch me and get a weak-ass wagon.

Ask everyone why they're voting me specifically. I can't even understand it, really. UGH. Why do I do this to myself?
can you mention them again? say what rubbed you wrong?

Your specualting on the setup while wanting people not to speculate on the setup and your reaction to Lift's vote. I disliked the vote for coming at that stage of the game, but I can't argue with the effect it's had on you.



I simply don't get how you can have Lift as your top pick for scum and still believe that.
But anyway, it's late, see you guys tomorrow.

I speculated on the setup? I think the only speculation I did on the setup was to show why you shouldn't speculate on the setup. I used an example of a TRAITOR, I used that example because it was harmless to use, in my view.

What I did in regards to speculation is minimal compared to a few others.

Of course it's had an effect on me! I thought I was going to use it to catch scum, and here, scum is using it to mislynch me - EXACTLY in the way I thought there would be no way for them to!! But, everyone is just going along with it!!!! It's disheartening, especially with my history here.
Because of history!!!

Because when I flip town and (if) people scrutinize him tomorrow, he's just going to say "well he shouldn't have done that!" or "hmm I must have been wrongly tunneling him afterall" and is going to get a free pass. Just like scum always do.

+

*when lynching me

The love of my life is in pain and thus I will not be around for a little while.

Drealmer, I believe that the argument you present of there being reasons to lynch me, trial, or Brasas is a bit absurd; I understand frustration in getting lynched for little to no reason (which seems to be what's happening), but it hasn't really seemed like too many players are reasoning heavyweights as of this moment. Saying that there is reason to lynch me or Trial or Brasas but there's no reason to lynch you is silly when you don't buy into the Trial argument I doubt you buy into Brasas's argument that we are scum together if you don't think Trial is town, and the argument against Brasas seems to be "look! it's Oakwood!". I don't think you look particularly scummy but I'm with Darko that your posts haven't been town enough to save.

The <17 hours to deadline / 2 votes to smurf-off vote count:

Drealmer (4): Trent, Wyrm, Lift, Darko
Nacho (2): Hunter, Brasas
Lift (1): Drealmer
JMich (1): Nacho
Hunter (1): Trial

Not voting (1): ~Mich

Maj = 6, Drealmer closest to being smurfed into the Smurfmatic Smurfmotabulator at S-2.

Deadline is Thursday 11/17 at 11:45 AM (pacific).

Let me know if your vote is not where you want it.

and scum just sits on the wagon knowing townies will just take it to hammer when it gets close enough to deadline...

*sigh*