Do I really have to do this again?
All deaths are good for town. Scum deaths are best, but town deaths are necessary and useful.
1 less townie means 1 less person to have to consider. It's far easier to pick one scum out of two players than it is six for example. It also means you can be 100% sure of someones alignment and that everything they have said was (if not accurate) in good faith.
You can also look at who pushed them, who buddied up to them and who distanced from them.

So yes, in the grand scheme of things if all we had to go on day 1 was that I am statistically most likely to be scum I would happily eat that lynch for the good of the town.
Fortunately that's not all we have to go on and there's a good chance of us actually hitting scum instead.

WHAT? Now this is low, even for you. You pick out an old post and ask 'is that all you got?' ... No, it isn't. How about reading on before posting? I know, reading before writing is an unheard of concept for nowaday's youth (that was sarcasm, by the way). But it really is helpful!

You know, I noticed a pattern over the last few games. While it is true that you always appear scummy, there is one significant difference. Which was noticeable in our last game, for example. When you were scum (in the game before that) you lashed out at anyone suspecting you, handing out scum-points to everyone questioning you. In the last game, where you were town, while you still were tunneling hard, this lashing out was not so strong. Almost as if you accepted, that some players might see you as scummy and still be town. It should have told me something in that game. Unfortunately you got yourself modkilled before I could go over all of your posts again.
But in this game you alternate between professing your disinterest in the game and lashing out. To me this feels more like scum-drealmer and not like town-drealmer. Not that the difference between these two is big, but it is there.

Well, maybe I am reacting too harsh to you. True. Maybe what trent accuses you of is valid for me as well and I take some things personally. For example the part "I rather play PS:T than play with YOU!" That statement didn't sit well with me at all. Because that statement was either very anti-social and unkind. Or it was scum just giving some arbitrary reason for not reading/not caring about the game. And you know what? I prefer to believe the latter. Because the former would make you an unfriendly person - which you aren't, as I know from our previous out-of-game contacts. So the principle of exclusion makes it more likely that you are scum, this time.

But well, enough about drealmer. I'll try to focus on the others for a while, to avoid tunnel vision (which I am prone to too).

Maybe it's a clash of style then because I don't see Hyper doing that at all. I actually look forward to his questions and pushes because he often catches things I miss. I'm trying my best to not jump all over you like I always do, but man do you make it hard not to.

I think you clearly misunderstand how Hyper plays and what he is trying to do then.

it's a matter of what I have energy and focus for, that is what is dictating my mafia play these days, it's nothing personal at all, I WISH I had the ability to be caught up and present rather than play catch-up- I hate playing catchup (scum or town)

I get anxious really really easily and haven't been sleeping a lot and have been generally stressed and mafia can increase my anxiety and it is not good to play that way at all (for my health first of all) because I will be more apt to lash out rather than make good posts and contribute to the game optimally whereas if I come at the game in a good headstate it is much better

that is what I am doing and why I am behind

OK. I understand. Then your 'I rather play PS:T' post was quite unfortunate. I understand work intervening. Or RL problems. But another game intervening just sounded bad. But don't you think you should take a break from mafia-ing if it adds to your stress level? No one will think bad of you, if you sub out, if RL stress and anxiety gets too much.

Meanwhile, here my thoughts about the others, as promised:
--------------------------------------------------------
*Disclaimer: number of posts may be off, since writing this post took a while*

So. Other players:

gogtrial - seems to be genuine about wanting to solve the game. Was in favour of revealing picks early. Questioned Gamma and justifiably so. I first had the impression that he pushed drealmer a bit stronger than necessary, but upon second re-read I don't think that any more. Seems town to me. Participation: 7 posts so far.

trent - initially wary of revealing the picks, but willing to go along. Seems quite reserved. But then again he often is on Day 1. Neutral so far. Participation: 15 posts.

Hunter - I really can't get a read on him. Nothing which pings me as scummy, but nothing towny either. Statistically one of the most excluded players, but that doesn't mean much. Neutral so far. Participation: 11 posts.

Gamma - against sharing picks. Then, as a fall-back line, suggests 'one name from each'. Seems like scum playing for time. Does a 180° on that later, after the decision was already taken and even explains that he's aware that revealing is good for town but he wanted to 'take the road less travelled'. What?
Doesn't reply to questions from gogtrial. Many short posts that don't tell much. Seems scummy, all in all, and would be my top pick if dreamler somehow convinces me that he's town after all. Participation: 14 posts.

adalia - early pro sharing. Several posts with content. Seems genuine in trying to make sense of the game. Pushes drealmer - but well, I'm not the one to complain about that. Neutral to towny. But needs re-investigation if drealmer should be town after all, since, as I stated before, scum might use drealmer as an easy mis-lynch because he reliably always plays scummy. Participation: 19 posts so far.

RWare - early pro sharing. Didn't select drealmer, because he cynically expects him to be lynched early - which drealmer tries to twist to a scum-tell, which in turn is ridicolous since the picks were sent in before roles were assigned. RWare throws around some maths. Pushes Gamma. Seems genuinely invested in solving the game. Seems town to me. Participation: 10 posts.

Hyper - going back, I have to agree with drealmer on one point: HSL is basically at drealmer's throat from the very start. Initially posts many short questions without revealing much himself. But then makes a useful matrix of all the excluded pairs. Seems invested in the game - but also seems quite focused on drealmer (and a bit on Gamma). Keeps pushing drealmer - but without voting! It always pings me when someone makes a strong case against someone without putting their vote where their words are. So, HSL is slightly leaning scum for. Would be more if I wouldn't agree with most of what he wrote about drealmer. But if drealmer turns out to be town, HSL jumps to the top position for how early he started to throw suspicions at the easiest target. Or in other words: I am quite sure that one of drealmer and HSL is scum. The question is only: which one. Participation: 15 posts.


So, my top three scum candidates at the moment: drealmer, Gamma, HSL (will take top spot if drealmer is town. However, will be certified town, if drealmer is scum)

It means his post is timed as such that what I initially thought was completely wrong.

Question: does this in any way indicate HSL is scum?

What the hell? I'm trying to parse your reasoning. I'd like you to explain why scum would create more pairs to avoid dupes. And I'm not "coat-tailing". I noticed your post and responded, just because I said similar things to him doesn't mean I'm taking his argument as mine. I also LOVE the fact that you only talk about me and drealmerz here. Any other scumreads?

I was considering the possibility that scum might be creating more pairs (avoiding duplication) to use it to appear towny with the idea that an extra few pairs might not hurt. I backed off on that idea after running my simulation. Go ahead and repeat it. Average duplicates are about 4 and we have 6. I'd expect duplicates to be closer to average if that were the case. In addition, there doesn't seem to be a heavy push against those with duplicates, except maybe Hyper, as I might expect if they had gone this route.

As to scumreads, I have only you. I don't see what Lift sees about Drealmer. Doesn't mean he's wrong, but I only see "typical Drealmer". Beyond that I have a lot of shades of neutral with Hyper leaning town for me.

I tend to view the game through actions as much or more so than words. So far we only have a handful of votes and only a couple pushes, so not that much to read yet. I'll know more when I see what stands everyone makes. Then hopefully, the picture will become clearer.

My gut says you are scum. Reason says you were trying to squirm out of a mass pick reveal. The list one of each pair seemed poorly thought out, possibly intentionally trying to leave wiggle room for later. Add the fact that your personal scum hunts seemed more like cherry-picking than studied, going after those who seemed to raise a bit of suspicion from others. It just feels like someone with their back against the wall to me.

Could you give your reasons for the rest of the players?



GammaEmerald clarified in the meantime, but I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying that GammaEmerald take these things as scum-points against me? If so, why did he place me closer to the neutral line than drealmer7? If not, what do these have to do with GammaEmerald's argument, and the clarification trentonlf asked for?



Do share, please. What are those other things that concern you?



There are quite a few things in your post #116 I could address, even in your post #101, but after this post of yours, I'm not sure there's a point to it.

Just look at what you wrote.

You basically admit to coming into the game with a preconceived view of me, and reading and interpreting everything I post to fit that view.

Don't you find it troublesome that while you're accusing me of misunderstanding/misrepresenting you, of not trying to make sure I have an exact grasp of the facts, of not trying to understand what was said, of taking what people say and make it look as suspect as possible, you're doing exactly all this when it comes to me?


As Lifthrasil said, this all sounds like reason enough to step away from forum mafia for a while. It's not mandatory to partake in every game hosted here, and doing so when playing adds to your stress and anxiety doesn't sound like the wise choice.
Hope you find that balance you're looking for sooner than later.



Interesting, must say that I had not noticed this. Could you link to the specific games you're talking about?


You seem to mistake my addressing all his "HSL scummy this, HSL scummy that, HSL scummy everything" for casting suspicion on and making a strong case against him. I may be quite focused on him, but what do you want me to do? Let his unfounded allegations/accusations go unaddressed? Or anyone else's? Would you do it?
There is the distinct possibility that this may well be the game where the "drealmer7's drealmerring, as usual" may finally pay off for scum-him, but, at this point, I'm still not confident enough that he's actually scum.

And while I can understand your view on votes, I will remind you that I'm not The Reluctant Voter for nothing; yogsloth has torn out quite some of his hair over this.

Not all that often in early game, really. I haven't been around long enough to know to what degree that's deliberate, but I remember in my first game that I always voiced who I found towniest, and they were invariably killed the next night, so that was a strong datapoint for me to not needlessly give scum too much info. Similarly, I have the feeling that a lot of the reluctance comes from a desire to see each other get on wagons 'organically', and that everyone too strongly indicating top picks for scum, gives scum an easy chance to gauge if they can stay off the wagons and still see it mislynch.

Meanwhile, you still haven't responded in any way to what was my second question from #56. You went from "let's reveal late" to "one name only is good" within 2 posts. Could you please explain your thought process on that? What were you thinking, why did you go along with that suggestion instead of opposing it, etc? See #86 for why I still want to know this.

And to make certain I'm actually getting your attention on this:
vote GammaEmerald

I'm not yet convinced you're scum. But as a complete unknown, unwilling to explain your thought process, you're a liability. You do seem to be responding more in recent posts, so hopefully this vote will be shortlived.

Any particular town pings you could point out?

-Dinner break - more from me later-

Okay. Well, let me put this in perspective. In perfect conditions, the 8 player version would have 28-16=12 possible scumteams. In this game, in perfect conditions there are 36-18=18 possible teams. That leaves plenty of wiggle room. Plus, scum has a night 1 kill. As scum, there would be no reason to fear mass revealing, since there's plenty of pushes to be done, and any clears/near-clears can be killed. So I wouldn't really be that concerned as scum about mass reveals early. You are aware I played this before right? I wouldn't d something setup related without putting in some thought first.
I changed position in two posts because I read up more. I figured "okay this seems interesting maybe we should try it", but now I feel it was rather silly to think revealing half a pick was a good idea.

Could you name some examples you were thinking of here? Your "a lot of" is kinda throwing me for a loop, as I don't recall people being pinged by adalia all that often, but would be interested in (re)reading some to see what I myself think of them at this point.

People seemed to be finding his "I'm most likely to be scum" talk scummy, which it's not. It's pretty much null to me since it's just talking statistics. Not really sure on the rest but I remember that clearly.

Yep that's what I said those were the reasons he thinks you were scummy, kinda misread trent's post hence my reply is a bit weird in retrospect. Maybe you're closer to neutral line because me and trent confirmed that you posted quickly after us and the chance of copying our picks was low. But still he did push that thing a bit more than it warranted and the way he is going after RW seems like he just wants a lynch.