That isn't the same as owning a piece of the program you helped write.

That's not what I've heard. Studios are companies. The ultimate owner of that company may not be a programmer or ever even seen by anyone developing a game. And if these owners decide to cut a game or put micro-transactions, DRM etc in it, there isn't much the developers can say against that as they are mere employees.

That wouldn't be an indie studio then.

"indie studio" seems a contradiction of terms. Please define "studio" as you understand it.

In the end, if you have more than 3 people (approximately) working on a game, then you are straying into the realm of being a studio of some kind.

What would need to be defined is the type of studio ... from the big end of town or the small end, though there would be plenty in between. This is why I earlier claimed the lines can be blurred a lot of the time, about what is truly Indie and what isn't.

And I believe things are only going to get even more blurred.

You could look at many games at Itch.io for instance, that I would not call Indie, and yet that was the definitive Indie game store at one point. A lot of games there now belong to a studio, if not one of the major ones.

GOG (and Steam etc for that matter) are helping blur the lines even further. Especially as one could argue a game that has become somewhat main stream is not an Indie game ... despite its simple beginnings ... though you could still claim it started off as Indie.

I'd define a studio by it having actual regulated employment with benefits and whatnot. I forget the number of employees that require you to do that in the US, but it's higher than 3.

art studio,
music studio,
fashion studio,
indie gamdev studio.
Yes true, but that doesnt necessarily change the status of the person / people / studio that created it.

Similarly you could be a major award winner and choose to go small, non-corporate - you are no less "indie" because of awards / perceived status (though of course that might help with things like funding, investment etc).

Maybe not, but we are talking about the status of a game ultimately, so it can be problematic in relation to that.

My earlier example of the Double Fine studio is a case where they went to Kickstarter for their funding, but were a very experienced studio and developers, so you can in no way consider them Indie, and so that game really isn't either ... and we have the videos at GOG to prove all that.

If the developers of a game do not divide up ownership of a game between them, and I don't mean stocks, or royalties etc. then IMO it's not "indie". If some company owns the game and the developers are employees that work at that company, it's not indie.

"Studio" or not "studio", that's just a label I can't get people to properly define.

Yeah I wouldnt include them either.

Well, I would. They are indies by definition. They are more professional than other indie devs, but they are "independent", at least they were. I don't know if they work for a publisher now.

Being a indie developer has nothing to do with being a rookie or with only creating very small games.


But maybe it's time to find a new term for "professional independent developers" like Double Fine or Wadjet Eye, since these days releasing games does not require to invest as much money beyond the development costs as it used to.

I would not class them as a true independent. They have too many contacts and resources which they benefit from.

I would call them quite a sizable studio with lots of professionals, and others at their back and call.

If you call them independent, then what is stopping us calling even bigger studios independent?

Have you watched their videos?

And I am not sure, that Indie fully translates to Independent ... not in the context that some seem to see it.

I don't think size of the game is a factor though, but rookie or less experienced should be, development skill aside.

But yes, the term Indie Game, as I declared earlier has many blurred lines, and clearly means different things to different people. So maybe a new term is needed now, as much that is Indie now appears to be some kind of mainstream.

P.S. And dare I say, that the fact you classed them as professional should exclude them from being Indie in any case, but hey, that's my view.

Nothing and no one. You can call independent whoever you want.


I don't use the work qualification to determine who's independent or not.
What about those who learned their profession when working for a big studio and then used that knowledge to become independent?
Other started out as indies and at some point became so big they could hire a second team or more. These I would not count as indies anymore, since they basically became a publisher.

Maybe the company size could be a indicator. Or maybe how the company is structured? How many people are allowed to work on a indie game before that title must be removed?
I think in the end it really comes down to the money that gets generated each month.

It's a highly subjective title, there is no definition what's indie and what not.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the wikipedia definition: "An indie game, short for independent video game, is a video game typically created by individuals or smaller development teams without the financial and technical support of a large game publisher."

It's never been about skill or being a rookie. Many indie devs are extremely talented and experienced (often vastly more so than the corporate drones that crank out shallow content for the big studios' next open world title); they've been doing it for a living for decades. They can be very much professional. If you mean amateur games, just say amateur games...

Now the definition above does leave some grey areas; the main question being when does the developer itself become considered "a large game publisher"? It's probably a question of head count and financial status, and there's no unambiguous way to draw the line, but the definition is still ok.

If John Carmack set out to write a game on his own today, that would be an indie game. If he used the billions he's amassed (in my imagination at least!) to hire a horde of developers for him, the result would no longer be an indie game. Everything in between, grey area.