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Knightspace: It never ceases to amaze me when regular users worry about piracy so much.

It's an issue for corporations now, not for us.
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rtcvb32: Gabe Newell said Piracy was a distribution/support/convenience/service problem. People are willing to pay if it isn't annoying to purchase and get your game working, and didn't cost too much.

I think it's more corporate attempted control, where they want to erase all their old games, you can't keep their games, and if you want to play you have to purchase the newest version of their game. It feels more like a Panzi scheme.

I bet you 100%, it wouldn't be a huge problem at all if copyright was shorter, and corporations didn't see it as them creating things they own forever and can sell forever. If content was say 20 year copyrighted, sure people would buy it out the gate, and then some people would wait. But the huge library of stuff going public domain means a lot more public domain stuff would probably be gone after by people who have less purchasing power.

Just because something went public domain doesn't mean you won't see physical media. But i bet it would be cheaper to produce and purchase series and movies, the 5 cents it costs per disc of DVD while Blueray is probably 20 cents. So instead of selling for $20 (or $5 at Walmart discount bin) they reduce to $2 and $4, still profitable for distribution and can include extra stuff that wasn't available otherwise, usually behind the scenes interviews and things, and would let people build collections, as well as special versions, The Matrix DVD, but with cellshading to look like anime edition! for those that really want it, or upscaling, or raising to 60fps via the latest and best frame interpolation technology.
What IDIOT wants a movie at 60 FPS? It cheapens the look of it vs. 24 FPS. which is intended as close as possible to replicate it as a piece of art. While it is not a painting this IS why things like movies are shot at 24 FPS,
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Breja: Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If you don't take it out and use it, it's going to rust.


I would like to thank Darvond, and everyone else in this thread, for finally giving me the opportunity to make that refrence.
You're welcome! Now let's go play chess with that kindly man with the scythe~.
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Sarang: What IDIOT wants a movie at 60 FPS? It cheapens the look of it vs. 24 FPS. which is intended as close as possible to replicate it as a piece of art. While it is not a painting this IS why things like movies are shot at 24 FPS,
Maybe. Almost all animation/movies goes to some multiple of 5, 6 or 12 . For anime they may animate characters at 12fps, and certain sections raise to 18 or 24fps. Having good intermediate frames is fine, having wrong and terrible ones is what will cause a problem. I've watched anime ran through a 60fps filter and most of the animation doesn't change at 12fps, but the background and cloud animations moving are smooth as butter.

What gets me isn't the 60fps. It's the stuttering i see when it goes up from 24 to 60fps that for 3/4th of a second it's smooth, and then there's like 3 frames that stop causing a constant stutter effect to me. If those weren't there, that's not an issue. But the effects i saw i am pretty sure was a hardware accelerated TV doing it, and not from the DVD/Blueray.

After the initial 5 minutes, you either get used to it and ignore it, or you can't, but you can always lower back to 24fps if you wanted. Or probably 30fps which is the other usual standard. (Unless you want to say it's 29.976 they do for.... some reason...)
Post edited March 26, 2024 by rtcvb32
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rtcvb32: After the initial 5 minutes, you either get used to it and ignore it, or you can't, but you can always lower back to 24fps if you wanted. Or probably 30fps which is the other usual standard. (Unless you want to say it's 29.976 they do for.... some reason...)
Dumb choices in broadcast standardization.
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Knightspace: It's an issue for corporations now, not for us.
"Won't someone think about dem poor corporations?!?"
Post edited March 26, 2024 by GamezRanker
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Sarang: What IDIOT wants a movie at 60 FPS? It cheapens the look of it vs. 24 FPS. which is intended as close as possible to replicate it as a piece of art. While it is not a painting this IS why things like movies are shot at 24 FPS,
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rtcvb32: Maybe. Almost all animation/movies goes to some multiple of 5, 6 or 12 . For anime they may animate characters at 12fps, and certain sections raise to 18 or 24fps. Having good intermediate frames is fine, having wrong and terrible ones is what will cause a problem. I've watched anime ran through a 60fps filter and most of the animation doesn't change at 12fps, but the background and cloud animations moving are smooth as butter.

What gets me isn't the 60fps. It's the stuttering i see when it goes up from 24 to 60fps that for 3/4th of a second it's smooth, and then there's like 3 frames that stop causing a constant stutter effect to me. If those weren't there, that's not an issue. But the effects i saw i am pretty sure was a hardware accelerated TV doing it, and not from the DVD/Blueray.

After the initial 5 minutes, you either get used to it and ignore it, or you can't, but you can always lower back to 24fps if you wanted. Or probably 30fps which is the other usual standard. (Unless you want to say it's 29.976 they do for.... some reason...)
Higher frame rate is quite noticeable to me. "Gemini Man" felt off to me and after finding it was shown at 48 FPS it makes a LOT of sense.
The piracy GOG-lookalike sites are the reason why I would be fine with the idea that GOG game installers, while DRM-free, would still have some kind of (secret or visible) watermarking tying them to the user who originally bought the game.

That wouldn't restrict the free usage of the installers like DRM does (on how many computers you can install and run it, requiring internet connection etc.), but if your purchased game would leak into the wild to pirate sites, then GOG could tell who is the culprit, or at least the person who originally purchased the pirated game.

The watermarking would not contain any personal information like your name (even username), but merely some user number that doesn't tell anything to anyone else, except GOG (e.g. "customer number 35454354566"). Only GOG could tell who is the customer who has that ID number. That would also mean that watermarking becomes meaningless if and when GOG store stops its operations, so you will not be a (water)marked man, or a women, for the rest of your life.

I have no idea how feasible technically it would be the do such watermarking system that is not easy to crack, and does not technically impede the downloading and usage of offline installers. But I would really love it as it would impede piracy, without affecting legit users (even when GOG servers are down, temporarily or permanently).
Post edited March 26, 2024 by timppu
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rtcvb32: Gabe Newell said Piracy was a distribution/support/convenience/service problem. People are willing to pay if it isn't annoying to purchase and get your game working, and didn't cost too much.

I think it's more corporate attempted control, where they want to erase all their old games, you can't keep their games, and if you want to play you have to purchase the newest version of their game. It feels more like a Panzi scheme.

I bet you 100%, it wouldn't be a huge problem at all if copyright was shorter, and corporations didn't see it as them creating things they own forever and can sell forever. If content was say 20 year copyrighted, sure people would buy it out the gate, and then some people would wait. But the huge library of stuff going public domain means a lot more public domain stuff would probably be gone after by people who have less purchasing power.

Just because something went public domain doesn't mean you won't see physical media. But i bet it would be cheaper to produce and purchase series and movies, the 5 cents it costs per disc of DVD while Blueray is probably 20 cents. So instead of selling for $20 (or $5 at Walmart discount bin) they reduce to $2 and $4, still profitable for distribution and can include extra stuff that wasn't available otherwise, usually behind the scenes interviews and things, and would let people build collections, as well as special versions, The Matrix DVD, but with cellshading to look like anime edition! for those that really want it, or upscaling, or raising to 60fps via the latest and best frame interpolation technology.
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Sarang: What IDIOT wants a movie at 60 FPS? It cheapens the look of it vs. 24 FPS. which is intended as close as possible to replicate it as a piece of art. While it is not a painting this IS why things like movies are shot at 24 FPS,
Trvia. In Europe Movies are shot at 25 FPS.
Anyway about the topic, I do not support piracy here. I support games gifting which I give to BenKii or who else is going to take the Community Giveaway.
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timppu: The piracy GOG-lookalike sites are the reason why I would be fine with the idea that GOG game installers, while DRM-free, would still have some kind of (secret or visible) watermarking tying them to the user who originally bought the game.
Would not do much good and in a certain way it would be DRM all over again.
While it can't be denied that there are gog copies out there, there are by far more cracked steam versions of the same game.
In the end, if this was a problem for pirates, the crackers would just do the same as they do with Steam versions and create their own installers.

A watermark can be easily removed anyway, if it's only superficial and/or only added to the .exe
Creating a not so easy to remove watermark for all bin files would mean that GOGs servers would have to create new bins every time someone downloads a game. And that's massive costs, that would negate every potentially little positive aspect such a watermark has.

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Korotan: Trvia. In Europe Movies are shot at 25 FPS.
That's only valid for TV shows because of the PAL standard. Most of the world uses 50Hz currency, therefore their TV standard was 25fps.
For cinema movies however, the 24 fps standard (in digital it's often 23.976 fps) is mostly used, also in Europe. I could not find any reference for 25fps used for cinema movies.

These days all NTSC / PAL / SECAM and other standards lost their significance, modern TVs are not bound to the in most of the world used 50Hz electric network or 60Hz in North America, parts of South America and a few regions in Asia. They can display all kinds of frequencies.
For 30Hz TV formats (29.97fps since color TV was introduced), cinema movies were converted, losing quality. For 25 Hz TV standards they just increased the speed of the movie, making them by about ~4% shorter (and increasing the audio pitch, which I noticed), but keeping the quality. Conversion 30fps <-> 25fps always has a quality loss.
Post edited March 26, 2024 by neumi5694
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Sarang: What IDIOT wants a movie at 60 FPS? It cheapens the look of it vs. 24 FPS. which is intended as close as possible to replicate it as a piece of art. While it is not a painting this IS why things like movies are shot at 24 FPS
There's a lot of urban myths with 24fps supposedly being chosen for being "cinematic" or "aesthetics". The real historical reason is simply that early silent movie era cinema had a lot of different variable frame-rates from 18-26fps (and some movies even changed frame-rate within the movie to fit the mood of the scene). Once audio was introduced they all had to be fixed and standardised in order for speech to be played at the right speed & pitch, so a fixed 24fps was chosen as a middle-ground compromise between the most common 22-26fps at the time. That's really all there is to it. The rest of "anything but 24fps looks wrong" is just habituation, ie, if people had gotten used to 48, 60 or 72fps instead, then 24fps would "feel weird" and have a "soap opera effect".

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timppu: The piracy GOG-lookalike sites are the reason why I would be fine with the idea that GOG game installers, while DRM-free, would still have some kind of (secret or visible) watermarking tying them to the user who originally bought the game.

That wouldn't restrict the free usage of the installers like DRM does (on how many computers you can install and run it, requiring internet connection etc.), but if your purchased game would leak into the wild to pirate sites, then GOG could tell who is the culprit, or at least the person who originally purchased the pirated game.
It wouldn't work at all for reasons previously described - all pirate groups would do is just create their own installers by "repacking" the files directly from the installed game folder + any registry entries / dependencies (exactly like they've been doing for 20 years with Steam games...) So you still wouldn't be able to tell who uploaded it. However someone who had their PC / HDD / NAS stolen or GOG account hacked would then be at risk of being punished if someone else uploaded their stolen installers against their will. Unique per-user .exe's (ie, the GOG equivalent of Steam's CEG) would need building from scratch for each download...
Post edited March 26, 2024 by AB2012
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I would like to remind everybody here that there was a time when GOG profiles were broken and showed 0 games for everybody.

This is fixed now, but people still need to acquire at least a single game, before the number updates.

So don't just mindlessly accuse people with 0 games of piracy. You could look at achievement count, hours played, milestones in the feed, but those would only be present if the user uses Galaxy. If they only ever use offline installers, then you would have no way of knowing.

So don't start a witch hunt automatically, whenever you see a user with 0 games. There are many possibilities to consider.

Personally, I have always been in favour of pay walling the forum. You would have to have spent 5 USD or equivalent to be able to post. I believe Steam has a similar policy. This would stop most of the spam too... and if it did not, then at least they'd be paying GOG for the privilege.
Post edited March 26, 2024 by SargonAelther
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Braggadar: if the community [...] doesn't give support to a legit user, the user could use the official support channel to solve their problem. *shrug*
Bingo!
But, of course - pirates can't do that - because the official GOG support won't help them with their pirated copies.

GOG support's reaction will most likely be: "we're sorry, but we're unable to find an order for "Game X", connected to the email address, you provided us with. Are you sure, this is the correct email/account?", or somewhat similar.

Edit:
Methinks, some here do protest too much.
"Guilty by association"?
I never used the word "guilty". Nor the expression "guilty by association".
That's a Freudian slip on site of some, I guess..

I said "don't support piracy" (which you do, when you try to help people who pirate (GOG) games, to get these games running).

But it's sure nice to see the usual suspects publicly admitting their support for piracy.

And, since the same people that claim: "piracy is ok, because it hurts the big and greedy companies", are also the same people who can be found in this forum protesting, that: "GOG has lost their footing. They are now themselves just another of these big, greedy companies!", pure logic dictates that: "1 + 1 = 2".

And if the first
"1" is: "piracy is good because it hurts the big greedy companies", and the second
"1" is: "GOG is just another of these big greedy companies", then
"2" is (inevitably): "it's ok, to pirate GOG games".

I sure hope, one of the blues keeps track.
Post edited March 26, 2024 by BreOl72
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Sarang: I found a certain website that does offer GOG games but they make it clear the intent is for you to TRY the game and buy it from GOG if you like it.
The INTENT is not for you to keep the game for free.
I will NOT list the site either so don't ask.
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LegoDnD: Dumping stolen goods out a window, and yelling to everyone who gathers to collect, that they should pay for what they keep, is still not legal.
Another Bingo!
It is a bit hard to grasp the double moral in this whole post . . . at least . . . to I it is.

Fact, gog offers DRM free copies. There is a whole, lets name it, thougt process, behind this offer.

another fact

people tend to do good to other's who they perceive as in their social structure

Weird eh ?

Sorry Breja
That certainly did explain the difference of why it's 29.976 and not just 30.

I wouldn't call those dumb standardization, as it's using a physical timer of one source to another, and all being analog it's much easier to divide by 2 than by some other number when you have a perfectly good signal hertz signal going.

But that half the world do 50hz and half does 60hz... is slightly annoying.

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Sarang: Higher frame rate is quite noticeable to me. "Gemini Man" felt off to me and after finding it was shown at 48 FPS it makes a LOT of sense.
Agreed. We've gotten used to 24-30 and higher framerates feel surreal... and yet actual life doesn't feel surreal. Kinda the uncanny valley, it flows better but something is slightly off about it. Maybe all video will be 120/240hz in the future and that will go away

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AB2012: There's a lot of urban myths with 24fps supposedly being chosen for being "cinematic" or "aesthetics".
In the future when everyone is used to 60fps video i'm sure 24hz will have a very different feel, inverse to what it is now.

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LegoDnD: Dumping stolen goods out a window and yelling to everyone who gathers to collect that they should pay for what they keep is still not legal.
Is it stolen goods when it can be duplicated infinitely?

To steal something means you deprive someone of something. But if you've never deprived them then is it stolen?

Though a lot of art galleries say you can't bring in cameras and they don't want cameras at live event shows... but the content was still enjoyed regardless....

*sigh* somehow when it's a digital good it's sacred and can't be touched, it's almost god-like in how you can get sued, but video tape the same content and it's okay now...
Post edited March 26, 2024 by rtcvb32