Exactly event the "deepest" most interesting character ever written is nothing more that a tool created solely for the purpose of the story.


Objectification has just become a buzz word nowadays like a lot of other similar words; it's often used as "'Objectification' is bad therefore if I call this thing that I don't like 'objectification' it means it's bad too"

Amidst the hearty congratulations and happiness, it certainly is an exciting time. Oddly, as an animation fan, I'm in a state of calmness about this. The reason is because I'm a bigger anime fan than I am a gaming one. For games, I'm mostly happy to pick what's available from GOG's curated selection.

And the key sort of games that could tempt me to go for a day one purchase are titles with a role-playing element, choices and consequences, the ability to choose your protagonist (or a fixed one that I like with the same maneuverability), and the goodness of escapism fantasy/sci-fi themes. As so it happens, GOG accepts the majority of these.

But with anime/anime videogames, I have a bigger taste and selection overall. There are stuff that I really want, there are stuff that I actually don't. Which means that with GOG's curated approach, it will be business as usual elsewhere. However, this is a lovely first step overall, and may GOG include more visual novels amongst it's collection.

Sunrider: Liberation Day has reached the top spot of the Popular list on the main page.

That's in essence sociopathy/psychopathy. The utter disability of empathy.
For normal people (as I wrote above in the WoT) there are varying degrees of "objectification" we unconsciously employ every day. The stranger who bumps into me on the street is much more "object" than person to me (which doesn't mean, I can't be polite towards him, because I want to be treated politely too) than my family and friends.

That question makes no sense. If I have no way to connect to the "real person" in any way, what's left is an idea, a mental "object" which is basically my assumption about the character, the impression I have.

As for actors:
Imagine a movie where a character is brutally tortured. Even if there's not much character exposition, and even if the character is actually "a bad guy", this scene will probably trigger empathy with me, I will feel pity for the character. Someone with a more sadistic tendency might actually find the same scene "arousing" in a way. Either way, the scene is "an object" that conveys certain emotions - depending on the recipient - and the character is a (probably central) part of that scene.
Ideally, if the scene works, the actor is completely hidden behind the character. He creates an extension of himself, a mask, an objectification (of a tortured man) which acts as a mediator between himself and me, the viewer.
Now I take a step back and say "It's just a movie". I can now see the actor - but he's still "object" to me - the guy who is employed to play that character who is tortured. To connect to that actor in a meaningful way, I would need more input which allowed me to relate. If I take another step back and think about the shooting of the scene, I might imagine how hard it must have been to spend hours in the make-up room to get all that gore on him. I might try to imagine how it could feel to play that tortured guy. In this, I get closer to the actor as a person and he becomes less "object" for me.

Like I said before, "objectification" is no binary thing but happens in varying degrees. A very personal example would be my kids:
Usually I love them with all my heart and so on... but when I'm really running on low battery and need rest and they keep disturbing me (worst if they're fighting), they become "noisy things" in a way. And in this state it's really easy not to see their needs and problems but simply yell at them to stfu... Other people might even resort to violence - because the other person is suddenly not "a person" anymore but a "target" for anger and frustration.

for actors, I was thinking more in terms of - it is Ok to objectify Hermoine Granger, as she is a fictional character, but what do we do with the actor Watson portraying Granger - is it ok for me to objectify her then, as i am not objectifying Watson, but Granger?

Well if you are a actor (and in general most public figure) then it's part of your job, if you don't like it well... do another job; heck if you are part of a popular movie franchise your are literally turned into an object (e.g. Star Wars & Marvel action figures). When collectors put on their shelves (or kids play with...) a figure of Hermione having Emma Watson likeness isn't it a "by the book" definition of objectification ?

Even worse, Emma Watson is objectifying YOU. She's even reducing you so much, she herself can't make you out. You're just "another one who saw Harry Potter" to her.

well, then you are wrong by your own words, as she do not see me as another "thing" (as objectification is), but as "another" (i.e. another person) which is humanization.
the problem with this is that the logical conclusion is that everything is "free" from morality, you can do as you want as long as you justify it with - I am not doing it it a person (the actor) but to the fictional person she/he is portraying.

That is great! The Sunrider series deserves lots of love, especially the first installment, with the two first chapters of the storyline. Since the developer offers Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius for free, going straight to the purchasing the sequel, Liberation Day shows the generosity of GOGers repaying the devs (and getting more content) and supporting the effort to deliver good games--which means helping them to make more.

Nice to see that the community rewards good practices in the game industry. Give away and it will come back.

Again, it is a strategy game worth trying. For those who expressed all kinds of hate against these games: find out what they are and critizise (or praise) them on a one-by-one basis. Throwing all them into the same bag makes no sense and leads to embarrassing nonsense.

Well isn't it the main difference between fiction / dream / fantasy and reality; that you can do, think, fantasize on, commit whatever you want it doesn't matter at all... as long as it remain purely in the realm of "[fantasies".

That might be true. Also, the work has ben used in this thread in so many different and twisted ways that it is hard to understand what some people even mean.

I guess (only a guess, please enlighten me if you know better) that behind this is the campaign in Steam against VN or erotica in games, and about erotica in GOG.

If that is the case, people sore about Steam, and fearful about censorship on GOG, should drop euphemisms and speak (write) as clearly as possible, instead of repeating terms (buzz words, as you say) that may have lost their precise meaning (or, tampered with and left beyond all recognition).

So the debate should be not about what objectification is, or when a story or game becomes cheap (or expensive) fanservice junk, nor about how reading the classics might do more for you than watching a soap opera, nor about how you better behave well to waiters (and not only because they are those who actually might spit in your coffee) or any kind of people in general, including those belonging to your favourite gender, but about two aspects of the issue:

1. The ethics of erotica in games.

2. Availability of games containing erotica (as in, sexy or erotic content).

For all what an opinion is worth, as long as there is no explotation of any kind (nor even of the programmers, heh), games of all venues ought to be welcome in GOG. Actually there are
more than
a few
games in GOG that include some erotic content.

A legitimate concern is avoiding massive inductions of low quality games in the site. We all know that curation is good because it helps buyers find the best games, thence rewarding good products and honest efforts in the industry. In that respect, sometimes less is more (or read about the crisis of the videogames industry in the 80's).

However, iit seems like this reasonment could be use unfairly against games that are good, just because they are hypocritically mislabelled and targeted. This seems more like what happened in Steam (but again, some of you may know better about what actually happend there).

So, to sum it up: a big NO to censorship, and a big YES to curation--not that GOG's one has not been controversial of late ;-)

Edit: hyperlinks.

Edit2: However, there is erotica and erotica. In the examples above (namely, The Witcher and Tender Loving Care) the characters, especially women, appear dignified. That is not always the case, especially with some hentai. That kind of material, while not illegal in most countries, as long as no children are represented, is of a different nature. Then, the guideline for inducting games into GOG should be that only those that comply with at least a minimum of quality are allowed in.

A different issue: a handful of messages in this thread makes the reader wonder how is it that some guys have such a big problem relating to women. What you do privately, as long as it is not illegal, is your own concern. But women are not your enemy, boys.

Haven't had the chance to play it. But I will.

She is reducing you to your function "viewer". She couldn't care less about your dreams and ambitions. She doesn't know anything about your "dignity". Of course she is aware that behind every viewer the is a "real human person" - on an intellectual level.

I've read a bit about eden*. There is another version called "eden* MOSAIC" which added nude content, but here comes the kicker, that nude content is censored. There literally is no adult version sold. Is this the coitus interruptus of our time? It did not work in ancient times, guess It works now? Fuck this (if only I could), I'd rather have the cut version then.

The reasoning they give is like: In Japan reproductive bits are loathed like pedo bits in western countries. But if you re-import it to Japan, they SEE reproductive bits. Nippon seppuku desu.

Boku wakaranai.

Obviously they have no qualms about exporting their pedo shit to America. So... logic?
Besides, IF somebody has problems with boobies (unrelated to the age of the protagonist), it's exactly "western countries", specific: USA. So.... logic?
I feel like that robot Captain Kirk killed with a logic bomb.

- Source: http://blog.mangagamer.org/2014/12/12/a-message-from-minori-regarding-eden-plus-mosaic/

I wonder how many people registered on Gog during this week just for these visual novels .