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General discussionQUESTION: CD Projekt. (77 posts)(77 posts)
(77 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 23, 2017
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Johnathanamz: What's wrong with my math?

Steam is at 0.74% of Linux users and gog.com is probably at 0.90% Linux users.

That's close to 2%.
Everything. Steam users and GOG users are two separate sets that may be partially exclusive or inclusive. What you can do is an average between the two at best, but certainly not add them up like they're parts of the same whole.

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Alaric.us: According to this: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ there are 3.06% of MacOS users on Steam.

Compared to 0.74% of Linux users and 96.12% of Windows users.
Yeah, that's just what I said: it's a slightly smaller sink hole than Linux.
Post edited August 24, 2017 by WinterSnowfall
Posted August 23, 2017
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WinterSnowfall: This. Fuzzy logic indeed.
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Johnathanamz: What's wrong with my math?

Steam is at 0.74% of Linux users and gog.com is probably at 0.90% Linux users.

That's close to 2%.
You don't take the sum of percentages of 2 groups to find the percentage of the whole. You can take the average for a ballpark approximation, but to get a correct answer you have to get their relative sizes and account for any intersection of those sets.

This is a sad indictment of today's education system.

Assuming you are correct and Steam is at 0.74% of Linux users while gog.com is probably at 0.90% Linux users, then the total is around 0.82% and NOT 2%. Ironically this reinforces your point.

EDIT: ninja'ed
Post edited August 23, 2017 by ZFR
Posted August 23, 2017
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Alaric.us: This, I think, was what people meant.
No, we meant that you can't add apples and oranges. If he did the same thing with actual numbers of Linux users on Steam / GOG, that would have sort of worked at a stretch, but we're talking about percentages here. If you add both you'll get "close to 2%" out of 200%. That's how percentages work.
Post edited August 24, 2017 by WinterSnowfall
Posted August 24, 2017
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WinterSnowfall: No, we meant that you can't add apples and oranges. If he did the same thing with actual numbers of Linux users on Steam / GOG, that would have sort of worked at a stretch, but we're talking about averages here. If you add both you'll get close to 2% out of 200%. That's how percentages work.
Yes, I know. =) I was just trying to explain to him that his calculation is wrong without going into details.
Posted August 24, 2017
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Johnathanamz: No never...
I think you're full of shit and here's why: I see it as an opportunity to stand up and say fuck you to a monopoly that should never have been tolerated in the first place, because monopolies are antithetical to free market economics, primarily because they stifle innovation by minimizing competition.
Post edited August 24, 2017 by richlind33
Posted August 24, 2017
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Johnathanamz: No never...
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richlind33: I think you're full of shit and here's why: I see it as an opportunity to stand up and say fuck you to a monopoly that should never have been tolerated in the first place, because monopolies are antithetical to free market economics, primarily because they stifle innovation by minimizing competition.
Ooookay... so when are you releasing your Linux game? Or would you like to invest in someone else making one? I, for one, could use a bit of a marketing budget. Send me some cash and I'll spend it on advertising on Linux-related sites. Will send you back all the receipts, of course.

On a more serious note, while that guy's tone may not be to your liking, his underlying point kinda makes sense.
Posted August 24, 2017
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ZFR: I'm sad because of all the stuff you wrote, it's your maths skills that hurt my eyes most.

If women make up around 50% of population in North America and 50% in South America does it mean they make up a total 100% of population in both Americas?

Dude, seriously...
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Randalator: Yeah that was bad (not as bad as his shitty attitude and hateful anti-Linux rant though), but it doesn't invalidate this particular point.

It's even more valid now because his estimate is much too high. Going by recent Steam statistics (http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/) Linux accounts for only 0.74 % of the entire user base. With Steam being the Juggernaut of online distribution I think we can safely say that even accounting for some variance 1% Linux users among all PC Gamers is a pretty generous estimate.

In March 2016 TW3 had sold 10 million copies (http://twinfinite.net/2016/03/the-witcher-3-sells-over-10-million/) and even assuming that those were all PC copies and every single Linux gamer would have bought one, that comes down to only 100,000 copies. In this scenario "only" about 15% of the ~67 million currently active Steam users actually bought TW3 so the potential Linux sales would also be closer to 15,000 copies. And with the 10 million milestone most likely including console sales, realistically we're looking at something more along the lines of 7,000-10,000 copies. Probably even less.

As sorry as I am for Linux gamers, from a business standpoint maintaining a Linux build of TW3 is just a money sink with no return of investment.
This is only true in the short-term. In the long-term there would be an enormous benefit to the whole of society from breaking the Microsoft monopoly.

The perspective you outline, which thoroughly dominates international economics, is a perfect example of being penny-wise, but pound-foolish, because it fails to take into consideration the value of the innovation that is lost due to monopolization.
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: Innovation in PC games is lost because most people use a particular OS.
Ah, I see.
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: I think you're full of shit and here's why: I see it as an opportunity to stand up and say fuck you to a monopoly that should never have been tolerated in the first place, because monopolies are antithetical to free market economics, primarily because they stifle innovation by minimizing competition.
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Alaric.us: Ooookay... so when are you releasing your Linux game? Or would you like to invest in someone else making one? I, for one, could use a bit of a marketing budget. Send me some cash and I'll spend it on advertising on Linux-related sites. Will send you back all the receipts, of course.

On a more serious note, while that guy's tone may not be to your liking, his underlying point kinda makes sense.
If we think of monopolization as a burdensome tax, is it not in our interest to try and free ourselves of it?
.
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richlind33: Innovation in PC games is lost because most people use a particular OS.
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Alaric.us: Ah, I see.
How certain can you be that Windows is an ideal gaming platform?

And surely you can see that the ramifications extend far beyond the gaming industry. Right?
Post edited August 24, 2017 by richlind33
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: How certain can you be that Windows is an ideal gaming platform?

And surely you can see that the ramifications extend far beyond the gaming industry. Right?
I'm fairly certain nothing is ever ideal. As I said earlier, I use Linux, MacOS, and Windows alike so I don't believe I can be described as a fanboy of either of them. My point of view is that MS doesn't have a monopoly. It's simply more prevalent, a common standard, which allows developers to focus on actual software instead of fighting with competing standards for systems development. A monopoly would mean that MacOS and Linux are unobtainable, which I know to be false. As a software engineer I can tell you that most companies at the moment outfit their dev departments with Macs. Likewise most "user facing" servers are ran on Linux.

TL:DR - something being overwhelmingly popular is not necessarily a bad thing. And in particular Windows being prevalent doesn't actually stifle game developers' creativity at all.
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: How certain can you be that Windows is an ideal gaming platform?

And surely you can see that the ramifications extend far beyond the gaming industry. Right?
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Alaric.us: I'm fairly certain nothing is ever ideal. As I said earlier, I use Linux, MacOS, and Windows alike so I don't believe I can be described as a fanboy of either of them. My point of view is that MS doesn't have a monopoly. It's simply more prevalent, a common standard, which allows developers to focus on actual software instead of fighting with competing standards for systems development. A monopoly would mean that MacOS and Linux are unobtainable, which I know to be false. As a software engineer I can tell you that most companies at the moment outfit their dev departments with Macs. Likewise most "user facing" servers are ran on Linux.

TL:DR - something being overwhelmingly popular is not necessarily a bad thing. And in particular Windows being prevalent doesn't actually stifle game developers' creativity at all.
Doesn't Microsoft have a controlling interest in Apple? And how many retail chains sell PC's preloaded with linux, sans Windows? Any?

Re creativity, that's only true if you can show that Windows is the most ideal gaming platform possible. Personally, I think you'd have to be a fool to think that eliminating the Microsoft monopoly wouldn't be a game changer.
Posted August 24, 2017
I/we personally would like a straight answer from CD Projekt.

Because as is now, having a single OS monopoly on AAA's and holding this market so tight as to have virtually no competition is just plain not right so the privacy and financial abuses just stem from that.

And from that one seed grows a tree so large that none have the sunlight to break through, not even CD Projekt is immune to its shadow.

Honesty is the best policy,
Cheers!
Post edited August 24, 2017 by NovumZ
Posted August 24, 2017
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NovumZ: I/we personally would like a straight answer from CD Projekt.
You'll have to wait a bit. They usually browse GOG forums Friday evenings and respond to such questions.
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: Doesn't Microsoft have a controlling interest in Apple?
Umm... no?
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richlind33: And how many retail chains sell PC's preloaded with linux, sans Windows? Any?
Very few. Same reason there are so few Linux games: because the demand is LOW. Linux most certainly has its uses, but the desktop market is not something it is very competitive in.
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richlind33: Re creativity, that's only true if you can show that Windows is the most ideal gaming platform possible. Personally, I think you'd have to be a fool to think that eliminating the Microsoft monopoly wouldn't be a game changer.
I don't suppose you are very well familiar with software development?



I would like to (once again) remind everyone that I use Linux too.
Just so that I don't get accused of hating Linux, its users, Trovalds personally, etc.
Post edited August 24, 2017 by Alaric.us
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: Doesn't Microsoft have a controlling interest in Apple?
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Alaric.us: Umm... no?
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richlind33: And how many retail chains sell PC's preloaded with linux, sans Windows? Any?
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Alaric.us: Very few. Same reason there are so few Linux games: because the demand is LOW. Linux most certainly has its uses, but the desktop market is not something it is very competitive in.
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richlind33: Re creativity, that's only true if you can show that Windows is the most ideal gaming platform possible. Personally, I think you'd have to be a fool to think that eliminating the Microsoft monopoly wouldn't be a game changer.
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Alaric.us: I don't suppose you are very well familiar with software development?

I would like to (once again) remind everyone that I use Linux too.
Just so that I don't get accused of hating Linux, its users, Trovalds personally, etc.
Please name the retail chains that sell PC's without Windows.

Re software development, would you say that it's just as easy to develop software for Windows as it is for open-source platforms?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionQUESTION: CD Projekt. (77 posts)(77 posts)
(77 posts)