Excuse me, Mr. "GoG community", I am still trying to understand how has Russia managed to dick you *that* remotely and why you eagerly enjoy the confirmations there of from the blatant liars. I can recommend you flying over Kremlin in the underwear, so that Putin (you seem to be so fond of) "dicks" you personally, apparently would be your life experience, as Bellingcat would write a 1000 page report about it in notepad.exe and you'd publish interviews like this, you'll be famous!

Thanks for following up...

I knew you wouldn't be able to find any.

I was just watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNQ2U6WxshQ, at 10:50 I was curious and opened wikipedia. The EN wikipedia was indeed changed - at 19:09, 26 December 2011‎ user "Fnlayson" has changed it to 7km and then it spread to all other wikis. Its funny how russian wikipedia still stays the most objective - citing all possible ceilings depending on engines, loadouts and models, where the EN wikipedia in talks over service ceiling suggests this (and keeps only 7km):

"Honestly, I'd ignore the Russian site completely, and inviting them here to discuss what's a dead issue at this point, trolling aside, isn't good. The Russian site is probably going to stay biased, but if you want to tackle the issue there, go ahead. But please let it die out here. Enough is enough." Awesome, isnt it? If this is the same way DSB cooperates with Antey (DSB uses software to model, where Antey blows up real cockpits with rockets), you get the "truth" which you deserve.

RE: why su-25 -> Just a few days after tragedy I saw videos from locals, who mentioned fighter jet (it was prior to version with A-A rocket), where west media immediately sung about russian BUK (and kept singing).

Very interesting!

Yes, in the English Wikipedia entry about the aircraft Sukhoi Su-25, its service ceiling was changed from 10,000 meters to 7,000 meters. From this, it seems that you're suggesting that this change was politically motivated in order to show that this aircraft couldn't have shot down MH17 (which was yet another theory put forward by the Russian government), because MH17 flew at an altitude of around 10,000 meters.

Except, the change was made, as you said, in 2011. Two-and-a-half years before the shootdown. It seems the edit was probably done because from the initiation of the article the amount of meters already didn't correspond with the amount of feet mentioned. So in order to find out which of the two units was right, user "Fnlayson" apparently got the right service ceiling for the Su-25 from the "The International Directory of Military Aircraft", which is mentioned as a source for the edit. ISBN is 1-875671-55-2.

It was only around July 21, 2014, the day of the Russian press conference about the downing of MH17, that an edit war erupted on Wikipedia in which, apparently, "Putinbots", as the Wikipedia community dubbed them, tried to bring the service ceiling up to 10,000 meters.

Oh, and here's another source for the Su-25 service ceiling as it is on Wikipedia now.

So yeah, it seems to be the other way around rather than what you are claiming.

And while I'm at it, the remainder of your Youtube video is to a large extent debunked by Bellingcat here.

So how long will you be peddling the lie before you stop defending your government regarding MH17?

Or maybe you want to give it another shot: find me an inconsistency in the final report by either Bellingcat or the Dutch Safety Board.

Zjeraar, if you want to know truth about MH-17, just wait 70 years when Pentagon's "Top Secret" classificatioin for satellite images will expire. Yes, they had spy satellite on the region when this happened.

USA is hiding them now. Russia many times asked to reveal it.
But, <sarcasm>They Don't want to harm Russia apparently, don't want to demonize it</sarcasm>

Just wait 70 years.

PS: while you are at it, check out «Ukraine on fire» movie by Oliver Stone. Was released recently.
You'll see role of USA in this, why they love Ukrainian nazis, why and for what purpose they (CIA) hid them after WW2 ended, why they (USA) have been cultivating nationalism for decades in Ukraine, what role infamous George Soros played in it. Maybe you'll see some clues to MH-17. Maybe.

This movie is not recommended to be put on air in European Union and USA.

Oh, sure, the same filmmaker who claimed that JFK, after the joining the Vietnam War, and responsible for the Bay of Pigs Invasion, was really a pacifist, and that's why a coalition between the CIA and the Mob killed him. What a trustworthy source.

Don't put labels. Watch this film.
If you don't care, just wait for a "trustworthy source" to declassify satellite images in ~2086.

Can I reply from tail?

I don't understand this sentence at all:
" So how long will you be peddling the lie before you stop defending your government regarding MH17? "

I would like that real murderers are found out and that they pay for this. Why am I defending the government? I am not defending any government. I am defending principles which are a combination of western and eastern values, such as neutrality, right for speech, right to have different opinion, independence of expression, investigation and defense of the truth.

The russian government was the only government, which officially responded with not being involved, provided resources and cooperation to investigate every single version.
The west media however started outright hysterical accusation ensemble, and by this I also include "official" Ukrainian pseudo-european (maybe whole current Europe media is actually "pseudo") "media". I am observing this since like Chechen war. Somehow when islamists or nationalists kill russians - they are "freedom fighters", but when the very same kill west citizens - they are terrorists. When Russia responds to official Syria request for help - they are aiding the dictator, but when west invades and bombs out an array independent countries on assumptions - its "for freedom".

" inconsistency in the final report by either Bellingcat"
I am not planning to observe or read the Fakecat, I provided the evidence and they have not distanced themselves from their fake.

"Dutch Safety Board."
Already provided. They are ignoring arguments and simulate explosion on the computer program, where Antey investigated all cases and simulates real warheads on real cockpit models.


"which was yet another theory put forward by the Russian government"
Did west have any other theories except BUK?

"It was only around July 21, 2014, the day of the Russian press conference about the downing of MH17, that an edit war erupted on Wikipedia in which, apparently, "Putinbots" "
Let me tell you huge secret - whole Russian subforum is full of "Putinbots" and has been such even before Putin was born. In fact, your neighbor is a Putinbot. He just does not realize it yet.

"Except, the change was made, as you said, in 2011. Two-and-a-half years before the shootdown. It seems the edit was probably done because from the initiation of the article the amount of meters already didn't correspond with the amount of feet mentioned."
That looks much more logical, yet the 7km have been pinned there since then. The reality, is that 7km is only applicable for classic old Su-25K. Slap a new engine (more specific thrust), add pressure suit and see you higher. The plane is a basic equivalent of Thunderbolt-II.

This book is mentioned Here, page 69(68) - su-25k was last mass produced in 1989 and two in 1996 and is "commercial, K" export version. The russian (and ukrainian) army uses SU-25T and TM, which have 10km+ fight ceiling - page 280(279), and this is data from 1995 and does not include Ukrainian SU modification which is reported to have higher ceiling.

The Su-25 service ceiling argument is just a sidestep for me. The whole Su-25 scenario is logically ruled out in the Bellingcat article behind the link in my previous post anyway. And as I said, I'm not interested in discussing anything else beside the final report by Bellingcat or that of the Dutch Safety Board.

You've linked to a Youtube video about a Ukrainian journalist who has some kind of beef with a Bellingcat contributor. This has nothing to do with the MH17 investigation and is just another ad hominem argument. I've tried to explain this before.

Look, if you're unable to provide any untruths in the final report by Bellingcat, as I asked you to do three times now, then we should really cease the discussion and I can safely conclude you're not really interested in the truth.

The reports are chock full of specifics. All you have to do is show me one thing they're wrong about to make me doubt they've got their conclusions wrong.

Interesting weekend ahead with the repeat of the presidential election in Austria and a referendum about a constitutional change in Italy. Both issues are somewhat controversial and may end in narrow results either way.

Interesting is that the president in Austria has some big powers (could dissolve the government) and that the proposed constitutional change in Italy seems to be even more profound than necessary (I would have limited it as much as possible on the question of the existence of the upper chamber).