It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
low rated
avatar
GameRager: Alleged behavior....unless she had some proof to back up her claims.
avatar
StingingVelvet: You don't instantly believe any allegation but you also don't instantly dismiss them. That's why these situations are so tricky and cause so much drama. I'm simply saying if you're a woman who was abused, I don't think the perpetrator having a mental illness should stop you from reporting that abuse. However it also should have been factored in to how his company treated the allegation. Firing him instantly was ridiculous.

I think companies are so scared of the anger brigade that they instantly try and remove themselves from any controversy, which is why it feels like we're in a 21st century McCarthy era.
I mainly posted that to correct how you just used the word bahavior and didn't add a modifier like alleged to it....it sounded like you took the accusations at face value based on your wording.

As for accusing/accusations: She and others could've told the law and not social media/his work to get him fired. That would've been the best way to do it so he could've defended the claim more easily and possibly kept his work from feeling the social pressure by others to fire him.

As for McCarthy: Some celebs want us to bring back the old blacklists in hollywood, or so some youtubers have stated lately.
avatar
GameRager: As for accusing/accusations: She and others could've told the law and not social media/his work to get him fired. That would've been the best way to do it so he could've defended the claim more easily and possibly kept his work from feeling the social pressure by others to fire him.

As for McCarthy: Some celebs want us to bring back the old blacklists in hollywood, or so some youtubers have stated lately.
Haven't read her tweet fully but as far as I understood there was no rape accusation. So she couldn't report him to police because he mistreated her, yelled at her, denied her to leave and enter his apartments and not buying her a plane ticket home. We may speculate that her freedom of movement was highly restricted, but than again there was another person, a roommate who helped her after all. I don't think that there were any criminal act against her hence no police was involved.
As for why did she do it after so many years, some speculate that she lost plenty of money and decided to catch the hype wave after Jeremy Soule was accused. You can check her Kickstarter project if you like:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/703752115/kickstarted-in-the-butt-a-chuck-tingle-digital-adv/description

So I don't think Zoe did the right thing, especially after she publicly announced that she is against internet attacks, I can understand her motives morally questionable but still.
The real "culprits" are his co-workers and friends, they had to help him, the studio guys decided to act as cowards and just dump him and his career. I also acted as coward many times in my life that is why I'm disgusted by the decision of firing him in all my heart.
low rated
avatar
Cadaver747: Haven't read her tweet fully but as far as I understood there was no rape accusation. So she couldn't report him to police because he mistreated her, yelled at her, denied her to leave and enter his apartments and not buying her a plane ticket home. We may speculate that her freedom of movement was highly restricted, but than again there was another person, a roommate who helped her after all. I don't think that there were any criminal act against her hence no police was involved.

The real "culprits" are his co-workers and friends, they had to help him, the studio guys decided to act as cowards and just dump him and his career. I also acted as coward many times in my life that is why I'm disgusted by the decision of firing him in all my heart.
If in the US she still could've filed a report....women have done so with much much less after all.

Also to me the culprit is whoever started the ball rolling and got him in the spotlight and kept him there. Te company that fired him is to blame a bit but they were only reacting to the bad press and pressure from social media/etc, and to me that makes them less culpable(but not totally innocent either).
avatar
GameRager: If in the US she still could've filed a report....women have done so with much much less after all.

Also to me the culprit is whoever started the ball rolling and got him in the spotlight and kept him there. Te company that fired him is to blame a bit but they were only reacting to the bad press and pressure from social media/etc, and to me that makes them less culpable(but not totally innocent either).
Canada is not so outdated in regards with people rights compared to US, so can't fully agree.

She called him names, they pulled the trigger throw him away without at least some kind of investigation. And he doesn't rape her or beat her, he was mental and he was in his own apartments.
Both parties are to blame for triggering his premature death, but his co-workers are the worst in my opinion because they betrayed their friendship and his trust.
low rated
avatar
Cadaver747: Canada is not so outdated in regards with people rights compared to US, so can't fully agree.

She called him names, they pulled the trigger throw him away without at least some kind of investigation. And he doesn't rape her or beat her, he was mental and he was in his own apartments.
Both parties are to blame for triggering his premature death, but his co-workers are the worst in my opinion because they betrayed their friendship and his trust.
Well at least we can agree they all added to it somehow. In the end, though, the most we can do is learn from this and try to not do it again. :\
avatar
Cadaver747: his co-workers are the worst in my opinion because they betrayed their friendship and his trust.
^This.
avatar
StingingVelvet: You don't instantly believe any allegation but you also don't instantly dismiss them. That's why these situations are so tricky and cause so much drama. I'm simply saying if you're a woman who was abused, I don't think the perpetrator having a mental illness should stop you from reporting that abuse. However it also should have been factored in to how his company treated the allegation. Firing him instantly was ridiculous.

I think companies are so scared of the anger brigade that they instantly try and remove themselves from any controversy, which is why it feels like we're in a 21st century McCarthy era.
With great power comes great responsibility, and words have common use as a form of instrumental power.

Its the same reason why most Americans, perhaps even all of them, understand that shouting fire in a crowded building doesn't account as free speech. However as with most things on the internet, most people turn their brains off in favor to appeal to that certain peer group even while knowing the dire consequences of the situation and the people that are already affected.

Its also whenever I post stuff I try to give of a honest but verbose response. I don't really feel like faking myself, and in truth this is the first thread that involves someone who I actually care about. NITW is an absolutely amazing game and that the company/group of indie devs that made it threw Holowka under the bus like that is simply not understandable, given from what is known (and even if we include that they might be scared by the outrage machine).

Out of interests I sticked my head into social media and found a whole host of people rationalizing this whole dilemma, its honestly several magnitudes worse than the worst posts on here, including mine of course. I'm honestly glad I'm mostly browsing this forum instead of other big places.

And just as a sort of disclaimer, even though this should be considered common sense. I agree with the reasonable voices who say that this whole situation should be resolved by the authorities first before jumping to any sort of conclusion. I'm hopeful that some people learned from the whole ProJared situation.

Furthermore, I think a lot of people might also be quite interested what the lead designer of NITW has to say: https://www.reddit.com/r/NightInTheWoods/comments/cxqjp8/end_of_summer_backer_update/
Post edited September 02, 2019 by Dray2k
low rated
avatar
Dray2k: Out of interests I sticked my head into social media and found a whole host of people rationalizing this whole dilemma, its honestly several magnitudes worse than the worst posts on here, including mine of course. I'm honestly glad I'm mostly browsing this forum instead of other big places.

And just as a sort of disclaimer, even though this should be considered common sense. I agree with the reasonable voices who say that this whole situation should be resolved by the authorities first before jumping to any sort of conclusion. I'm hopeful that some people learned from the whole ProJared situation.
*snipped to save space*, but you make some very good points.

Bolded bit above: You have my sympathies and an offer for a can of eye bleach is extended.
So tragic that a perpetual liar like zoe quinn can instantly destroy an innocent man's life with just one flimsy accusation.

RIP Alec Holowka
avatar
Dray2k: Its the same reason why most Americans, perhaps even all of them, understand that shouting fire in a crowded building doesn't account as free speech. However as with most things on the internet, most people turn their brains off in favor to appeal to that certain peer group even while knowing the dire consequences of the situation and the people that are already affected.
I'm somewhere in the middle on this, but that's a realllllly shit comparison.
avatar
StingingVelvet: I'm somewhere in the middle on this, but that's a realllllly shit comparison.
Of course, but I wrote this simply because its not fully wrong but perhaps a bit too strongly worded in parts. It was honestly quite inconsiderate to phrase it in the way i did so let me elaborate a little bit.

Basically my intent was to imply that people have an inert sense of moral truth. Let me give you an example, lets stick with free speech. Like anything, simple but important arbitrary concepts like free speech should be allowed to discuss and perhaps it even kinda is important to discuss even abstract things online even if nobody knows the full truth about anything, like us of course.

The problem that arises is when people believe what they're stating is "the full fact", which is the crux of the issue when it comes to discussing things over at the large social media sites. So why is there a form of idiosyncrasy surrounding this? Its simply because some people favor things that are directly in front of them, like their social media friends, over talking abstract concepts like the discussions at hand.

What I mean by this is simply that as long as people don't become the lynch mob then even extremely inept and untrue statements shouldn't exactly be disallowed, as those would direct people from considering not speaking their minds if they feel like it. If things reach a little bit too far of course its always best to step back from the thread and care about something else, but thats a different thing. I'm a firm believer in the way that even if you apply anonymity to people they still have a sort of intrinsic and individualistic sense of civility and a degree of justice, however misdirected or even dangerous it might be. I mean you can actually observe this behavior as well of what happened with ProJared (hes from what I know just the most prominent, which is why I take him as an example) before his recent response.

People thought they knew the full truth, based around misinformation and half-truths which causes people to direct the inert sense of justice in the wrong way, which in turn gave power to those that manufactured the whole incident.

The creation of the lynchmobs can be compared to the action like shouting fire in a crowd that actually believe that the fire exists, even if reason tells you otherwise. An online lynchmob basically annulates the sense of individual civility quite adeptly in order to give people inside these groups a sense of urgency and extreme justice. But with most things as extreme and narrow minded as these sort of groups, things change immediately once people have more information. You can kind of think of this like calming down after you've been very angry about something, the process is seriously similar. Most of those people who're in those lynchmobs are actually seriously invested in the things they do.

There is also a thing about memes and how they can be uses to deflame people under the guise of jokes but thats a different beast and honestly quite complicated, memetheory (not internet jokes but rather forms of information that are passed on fluently, Wittgenstein is a good start if you want to read into that sort of stuff and then Dawkins who coined the term).

Last but not least, this ain't my first time saying that social media is bad. But overall, the people that partake in these sort of witchhunt activities are probably even less than 0.3% or even less but thats just an educated guess. Its still several hundred thousand folks but overall the very vast majority are just people who just want to have fun inside their group not careing about the latest dramanews while just having fun online, which is also why you can read that many people are shocked when they actually notice these things as well.

EDIT: This comment came out much longer than I thought it would. I also think in order to dissolve the entire problem of twitter/facebook hiveminds is learn some simple self dicipline and understanding that "the whole truth" is something that people must take some time and patience in in order to fully grasp. Something that we all learn as time goes by. In a time where "fake news" are prevalent its more important to be viligant and not jump on a certain bandwaggon nor reach towards a certain conclusion to quickly.
Post edited September 02, 2019 by Dray2k
low rated
avatar
Dray2k: Of course, but I wrote this simply because its not fully wrong but perhaps a bit too strongly worded in parts. It was honestly quite inconsiderate to phrase it in the way i did so let me elaborate a little bit.


EDIT: This comment came out much longer than I thought it would. I also think in order to dissolve the entire problem of twitter/facebook hiveminds is learn some simple self dicipline and understanding that "the whole truth" is something that people must take some time and patience in in order to fully grasp. Something that we all learn as time goes by. In a time where "fake news" are prevalent its more important to be viligant and not jump on a certain bandwaggon nor reach towards a certain conclusion to quickly.
I just wanted to say that you have a way with words I could only dream of having. +1...it'd be even more if I could and if rep actually did anything.

Have a good one and again it was a pleasure to read another of your well written replies.
avatar
Dray2k: Furthermore, I think a lot of people might also be quite interested what the lead designer of NITW has to say: https://www.reddit.com/r/NightInTheWoods/comments/cxqjp8/end_of_summer_backer_update/
They really shouldn't be interested. The statement is just a bunch of BS. Up from "we always cared about him" point. That's an obvious lie. When you care about a person, you're actually try to know who this person is and what happens in his life. If someone you care about has mental problems, you support him. If he is prone to abusive behavior, you help to set him on the right track. And if you care about someone you certainly DON'T cut ties in an instant when someone brings up accusations about something years old.

avatar
Dray2k: I also think in order to dissolve the entire problem of twitter/facebook hiveminds is learn some simple self dicipline and understanding that "the whole truth" is something that people must take some time and patience in in order to fully grasp. Something that we all learn as time goes by.
No, we don't learn it "as time goes by", we learn it from our parents, peers and superiors when they tell us that our tantrums or rage will not change a damn thing. And we all have to do research and work on solutions to make things happen.

As long as mainstream media and media creators will support mobs by bending over them and even joining them, no one will learn.
Post edited September 02, 2019 by LootHunter
low rated
avatar
darthspudius: Zoe Quinn and her pathetic #MeToo movement.
I wasn't just Zoe Quinn #MeToo movement, It was the leftists #MeToo movement you leftists happy now, You just MURDERED someone Happy.

See You really DO NOT know what is going on in someone's life don't any of you!

Today WE LOST another brother, Thank's to Leftists and their Psychological operations!
low rated
avatar
spds100: blame Zoe Quinn and her SJW followers
That's funny where is TinyE?

Zoe Quinn is an IT it isn't a her!
Post edited September 02, 2019 by fr33kSh0w2012