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General discussion (archive)Interesting interview with GOG staff(30 posts)(30 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 17, 2013
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MJVandershonk: "The other problem we occasionally see, particularly for newer games, we’ll get in contact with an indie dev or non-indie dev and they’ll be like, “Yes, we want to put our games on your service, DRM-free. It just uses Steamworks.” And we’re like, “Ehh, but that’s a problem.”

This is the biggest problem I have with modern gaming. I've lost count of the number of titles I've been following where the developer claimed there would be no DRM then days before release announce its a steamworks title as if it's not DRM. its got to the point where I don't follow AAA titles anymore and just check out kickstarter games, since they seem like they have to be upfront about what drm they use and in most cases try to distribute with GOG.
Is there anything from a technical standpoint stopping a development studio from using all the Steamworks API's except the DRM bits?
Posted July 17, 2013
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MJVandershonk: "The other problem we occasionally see, particularly for newer games, we’ll get in contact with an indie dev or non-indie dev and they’ll be like, “Yes, we want to put our games on your service, DRM-free. It just uses Steamworks.” And we’re like, “Ehh, but that’s a problem.”

This is the biggest problem I have with modern gaming. I've lost count of the number of titles I've been following where the developer claimed there would be no DRM then days before release announce its a steamworks title as if it's not DRM. its got to the point where I don't follow AAA titles anymore and just check out kickstarter games, since they seem like they have to be upfront about what drm they use and in most cases try to distribute with GOG.
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Kristian: Is there anything from a technical standpoint stopping a development studio from using all the Steamworks API's except the DRM bits?
You'd still need a Steam account and steam installed, no? That may not technically be DRM but it amounts to the same thing.
Posted July 17, 2013
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MJVandershonk: "The other problem we occasionally see, particularly for newer games, we’ll get in contact with an indie dev or non-indie dev and they’ll be like, “Yes, we want to put our games on your service, DRM-free. It just uses Steamworks.” And we’re like, “Ehh, but that’s a problem.”

This is the biggest problem I have with modern gaming. I've lost count of the number of titles I've been following where the developer claimed there would be no DRM then days before release announce its a steamworks title as if it's not DRM. its got to the point where I don't follow AAA titles anymore and just check out kickstarter games, since they seem like they have to be upfront about what drm they use and in most cases try to distribute with GOG.
Indeed. Valve really has the wool pulled over the eyes of the general PC gaming population as to what DRM really means.
Posted July 17, 2013
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Kristian: Is there anything from a technical standpoint stopping a development studio from using all the Steamworks API's except the DRM bits?
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ChrisSD: You'd still need a Steam account and steam installed, no? That may not technically be DRM but it amounts to the same thing.
Maybe to access those features. But if a game had optional cloud saving, achievements, etc when logged in to Steam but otherwise functioned fine without Steam and had no other DRM measures at all then would it qualify as DRM free?

Is there anything stopping a development studio from doing that? Has any development studio done so?
Posted July 17, 2013
GOG has had a lot of cool articles recently... found this one very interesting too. Thanks for posting. :)
Posted July 18, 2013
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ChrisSD: You'd still need a Steam account and steam installed, no? That may not technically be DRM but it amounts to the same thing.
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Kristian: Maybe to access those features. But if a game had optional cloud saving, achievements, etc when logged in to Steam but otherwise functioned fine without Steam and had no other DRM measures at all then would it qualify as DRM free?

Is there anything stopping a development studio from doing that? Has any development studio done so?
I believe Moonbase Alpha worked like that. You could start it directly from the .exe without Steam running, and it would work fine, but the server browser wouldn't work.
Posted July 18, 2013
"I would not put my faith in “If Steam goes bankrupt you will magically have all your games to play,” I’m pretty sure you will magically have none of your games to play."

I think I'm gonna frame this.
Posted July 18, 2013
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Fesin: "I would not put my faith in “If Steam goes bankrupt you will magically have all your games to play,” I’m pretty sure you will magically have none of your games to play."

I think I'm gonna frame this.
I think what's even more important is that Trevor confirms that the claim that Newell said that the games would be made DRM free if Steam went permanently under was just an urban legend. Not that it wouldn't be a fishy statement even if he had actually said that.

Also, glad to see I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream being mentioned (especially the part about the censoring making the game unwinnable). I never played the game (or read the original novel, for that matter), but I watched a playthrough of it and I really liked what I saw, so I would be really happy if it appeared on GOG.
Posted July 18, 2013
Actually I am not so much against censoring like Trevor for example. I don't think anybody needs to be able to kill children in any video game. It's just something not really seen as cultivated behavior and with a good reason I think. So if killing adults is not enough but it has to be children, than the original maker of the game was a bit crazy in his mind. The video gaming hobby is not at risk if there would be 2 or 3 less games on GOG.
Posted July 18, 2013
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Gandos: Also, glad to see I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream being mentioned (especially the part about the censoring making the game unwinnable). I never played the game (or read the original novel, for that matter), but I watched a playthrough of it and I really liked what I saw, so I would be really happy if it appeared on GOG.
Same for me. Grim Fandango is another game I never played, but after watching a walk through, I'd like to see it here some day and will get it.

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Trilarion: Actually I am not so much against censoring like Trevor for example. I don't think anybody needs to be able to kill children in any video game. It's just something not really seen as cultivated behavior and with a good reason I think. So if killing adults is not enough but it has to be children, than the original maker of the game was a bit crazy in his mind. The video gaming hobby is not at risk if there would be 2 or 3 less games on GOG.
I think censoring is fine as long as there is a patch to reverse it back to the original released state. That way someone can pick which version they want to play.
Posted July 18, 2013
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Trilarion: Actually I am not so much against censoring like Trevor for example. I don't think anybody needs to be able to kill children in any video game. It's just something not really seen as cultivated behavior and with a good reason I think. So if killing adults is not enough but it has to be children, than the original maker of the game was a bit crazy in his mind. The video gaming hobby is not at risk if there would be 2 or 3 less games on GOG.
I'm personally alergic to 'care bears' who always know what's good for me and want nothing but my well-being, because I'm too stupid to know what's good for me.
I can't find any good reason for my character to hurt those kids in Fallout... but I'm totally against censoring that or any other game or media.
Posted July 18, 2013
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Fictionvision: ... I think censoring is fine as long as there is a patch to reverse it back to the original released state. That way someone can pick which version they want to play.
But then it wouldn't be censoring. I want censoring and I want nobody to play killing children. I know it's controversial and I know that the majority here is probably the other way around but I wanted to express that TET's or GOGs opinion in this regard is not undisputed.
Posted July 18, 2013
I am very very very strongly in favor of extremely strong free speech protections to the point were I doubt even the classic yelling fire in a crowded theater should be illegal. I think death threats should be illegal and maybe maybe there should be some form of anti-libel and slander legislation(very very narrowly construed) but that is just about it. If someone wants to make a game about eating babies, let them! I would personally be disgusted by something so vile and I would never support it. But that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

There is no non-arbitrary limit to free speech.
Posted July 18, 2013
I find it weird that we trust our governments so much about everything... and still such... not so competent people to our parlaments.
No, I don't want any beaurocrat to tell me what's good for me. I can do some self-censoring if I feel I need to. Age restrictions - fine. Banning games\books\movies for their content - bad.
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And let's ban DHMO!
Posted July 18, 2013
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Kristian: Maybe to access those features. But if a game had optional cloud saving, achievements, etc when logged in to Steam but otherwise functioned fine without Steam and had no other DRM measures at all then would it qualify as DRM free?

Is there anything stopping a development studio from doing that? Has any development studio done so?
From a technical point of view it's something very easy to do, just provide a dummy version of the Steam_api.dll (the easiest way, what most cracks does) , or if you want to do something cleaner, encapsulate the Steam API in the game code and depending if Steam is running or not use the Steamwork features or not.

What I don't know is if Valve actually allows that, having a Steamwork version being sold and downloaded from somewhere else than Steam.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Interesting interview with GOG staff(30 posts)(30 posts)
(30 posts)