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No, you couldn't
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michaelleung: Couldn't you define most artsy fartsy games as indie games?

I just mentioned the Metal Gear Solid games. Those are as big budget as they come, but pretentious as fuck.
also Killer 7, Katamari, Okami, and so on
Metal Gear is a pretentious, non-charismatic, boring and overrated saga. Also, Katamari Damacy is a great game.
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ElPixelIlustre: Metal Gear is a pretentious, non-charismatic, boring and overrated saga.

I'll give you pretentious, non-charismatic and overrated, but I don't think it's boring.
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ElPixelIlustre: Metal Gear is a pretentious, non-charismatic, boring and overrated saga.
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michaelleung: I'll give you pretentious, non-charismatic and overrated, but I don't think it's boring.

Story boring rather than gameplay boring? The gameplay was okay but the story was forgettable. So much so that the only thing I remember from MGS2 (which is the only one I played) is the gimmicky but cool bit with the psychic bloke where you had to swap controller ports
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michaelleung: I'll give you pretentious, non-charismatic and overrated, but I don't think it's boring.
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Aliasalpha: Story boring rather than gameplay boring? The gameplay was okay but the story was forgettable. So much so that the only thing I remember from MGS2 (which is the only one I played) is the gimmicky but cool bit with the psychic bloke where you had to swap controller ports

That's MGS 1 you're thinking of.
And personally, I think the MGS storyline is extremely awesome. It's amazing how they just kept piling up all these crazy-ass twists installment after installment, only to masterfully close off all those loose ends in 4. Anyone familiar with the series knows that that's an insane feat. Yes, the dialogue is cheesy, but the actors read it with a certain zest that makes every conversation shine. And the gameplay? Very, very awesome. Sneaking around in cardboard boxes, hiding against walls, waiting for the perfect moment, then CQCing a soldier's ass is one of the most satisfying feelings in the world. The boss fights are superb, and are some of the most memorable fights you'll ever come across in a video game.
Is it an artsy series? Of course. Does it shove its messages down our throats constantly? Absolutely. In the end, is it bad? Nope. I can never really argue against the many messages of the series, because most of them are 100% true. Cheesy, no doubt, but true.
That's the problem with Kojima though, he has a message to deliver in his storytelling but he just does so in such a convoluted way.
That's not a problem with Kojima; it's a problem with Japanese story telling.
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ElPixelIlustre: Metal Gear is a pretentious, non-charismatic, boring and overrated saga.
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michaelleung: I'll give you pretentious, non-charismatic and overrated, but I don't think it's boring.

Yeah, I don't think it's boring either. If you just buy into the whole silliness of it all, the gameplay is solid. Get it? Solid?
You tried Passage?
it was released a year or two back i think, kind of nes styled representation of your whole life.
I actually found it both clever and strangely moving. (well, at least a little).
You start at the beginning of your life, and head to the right to go through your life... but there is more to it than there first appears.
http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/passage/
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ElPixelIlustre: Metal Gear is a pretentious, non-charismatic, boring and overrated saga
Attachments:
IMO the gameplay is as boring as the story.
Attachments:
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soulgrindr: You tried Passage?
it was released a year or two back i think, kind of nes styled representation of your whole life.
I actually found it both clever and strangely moving. (well, at least a little).
You start at the beginning of your life, and head to the right to go through your life... but there is more to it than there first appears.
http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/passage/

Damn, I was going to post this. I can't tell if I like it, or if I think it's taking the "games as art" argument in the wrong direction. I don't like that the creator calls his games art games, anyhow, and I think he is following a silly formula to arrive at his work's completion.