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General discussionTo the forum - my last will and testicle(231 posts)(231 posts)
(231 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: In all honesty, I'm pretty shocked at the amount of people who seem to think the rules are "negotiable" or will change because they personally dislike them, especially if they repeatedly try and make it clear just how much they dislike them. Or because they personally dislike moderation. I tried to ask the community where they wanted to take the forum in the future, and how they want it to be moderated, and all we got out of it were disgusting arguments, and nothing changed. There's a very good reason as to why rules, in general, exist, and why we don't live in anarchy.

The current state of the forum discourages healthy discussions and, by extension, discourages new users from wanting to take part in those discussions. And the times when hate speech was a subjective matter are long gone too - it's become a lot more than just that.
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richlind33: Thing is, "hate speech" laws have not only failed to make this world a better place, they've actually made it worse, because now more than ever before, people hear 1 or 2 "bad" words and decide that person X or person Y is a "hater", or person X or Y is a "degenerate", and stop listening. And when we stop listening to one another, societies, institutions and families become more dysfunctional, rather than less dysfunctional.

LONG before hate laws showed up people were getting booted out of forums for wishing harm or death on others. In no way, shape, or form, are hate laws necessary to effectively deal with such problems, and people who feel safer for them are setting themselves up for a nasty fall because "out of sight, out of mind" leaves you more vulnerable, rather than less vulnerable.

That said, please give us an off-topic subforum, sooner rather than later, and do what is necessary to restore a modicum of civility. I personally prefer less moderation, rather than more, but I appreciate the situation you're in. You're not going to leave everyone happy, and you're not obligated to, but evenhandedness would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Well, the general discussion is THE off-topic subforum, so do with it what you wish (as long as it's within the forum rules:)).
Posted March 03, 2017
high rated
The Times They Are A-Changin'

Honestly wont mind as long as the moderators aren't hypocritical.

My hopes are not high.
Posted March 03, 2017
Simple fact is this is a store forum, intended for discussing about games, that may be on that store.
There's no free speech rights on the internet. Somebody owns every site, and on their site, they decide what is, and isn't allowed.
I only use this site for specific game related discussions, usually they don't stray into political views.

I'm happy to see that some moderation is now being appkied.
Whatevr the rules may be, my policy is attack the argument, not the person making it.
I've never needed others to do my moderating, and expect this to make no difference.
If you can't manage to do that, I don't want to see your posts anywhere.

As to the method used, personal moderation is much better, than specific word filtering, in my opinion.
It's the meaning of the sentences, that matter, not the words used in them.
This is the best option, as far as I'm concererned.
Posted March 03, 2017
As a reminder, and because some people could wrongfully accuse Fables of enforcing rules, the locking of threads for "hate speech" is not something new. Even two years ago, Judas did it and it didn't result in big dramas about "forum rules":
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/terrosrist_attack_at_charlie_hebdo_office

Rather than bashing Fables, it's more questionable why Judas let the GG thread run for this long as it didn't correlate with the other lockings of threads. So it's just a return to the "normal" course of things rather than some abrupt change.
Posted March 03, 2017
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catpower1980: As a reminder, and because some people could wrongfully accuse Fables of enforcing rules, the locking of threads for "hate speech" is not something new. Even two years ago, Judas did it and it didn't result in big dramas about "forum rules":
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/terrosrist_attack_at_charlie_hebdo_office

Rather than bashing Fables, it's more questionable why Judas let the GG thread run for this long as it didn't correlate with the other lockings of threads. So it's just a return to the "normal" course of things rather than some abrupt change.
Well, maybe because managing the forum isn't and has never really been his job, per say. But yes, locking threads is nothing new. I don't get the drama abut forum rules either. The rules have been around since forever, pretty much every other online community has some, and somehow people still find it hard to accept that they're not negotiable and that if we run this forum, we have every right to enforce our rules. The fact that they've not been enforced for quite a long time is unfortunate but pretty much unrelated.
Posted March 03, 2017
low rated
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fables22: Well, maybe because managing the forum isn't and has never really been his job, per say. But yes, locking threads is nothing new. I don't get the drama abut forum rules either.
Really? Surely you did not expect things to go perfectly smoothly with no resistance from the people who enjoyed the "lawless"state of affairs and abused it. An outcry from the people who brought us to the point where we need moderation in the first place, all the mass downvoting of posts, all the overly dramatic goodbyes were inevitable, and only proves things are finally going in the right direction.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: Well, maybe because managing the forum isn't and has never really been his job, per say. But yes, locking threads is nothing new. I don't get the drama abut forum rules either.
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Breja: Really? Surely you did not expect things to go perfectly smoothly with no resistance from the people who enjoyed the "lawless"state of affairs and abused it. An outcry from the people who brought us to the point where we need moderation in the first place, all the mass downvoting of posts, all the overly dramatic goodbyes were inevitable, and only proves things are finally going in the right direction.
I'm not saying that I didn't expect it. I'm saying that I don't understand it - or more like, I'm pretty shocked by the amount of people who somehow seem to think they should be exempt from these rules, for whatever reason.
Posted March 03, 2017
The internet has always been two sided. Freedom vs control. I think in gogs case, a bit more control is needed. In any case, it seems gog is just enforcing ancient laws set forth by those who came in the before time. I think it's important to keep to the ancient texts known as 'policies'.
Posted March 03, 2017
high rated
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catpower1980: As a reminder, and because some people could wrongfully accuse Fables of enforcing rules, the locking of threads for "hate speech" is not something new. Even two years ago, Judas did it and it didn't result in big dramas about "forum rules":
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/terrosrist_attack_at_charlie_hebdo_office

Rather than bashing Fables, it's more questionable why Judas let the GG thread run for this long as it didn't correlate with the other lockings of threads. So it's just a return to the "normal" course of things rather than some abrupt change.
Because the GG thread had pages of real, constructive discussion within it. Off the top of my head, I recall two conversations that arised after some alt-account said that gender and race were social constructs. Also the many conversations on political principles, I even recall a polite discussion between myself and ToxicTom about economic intervention / state intervention, many many posts about freedom of speech, and much more. Also tidbits from smaller issues that didn't warrant their own topics due to limited interest maybe, like individual games being censored or what constitutes a proper localization, or many other topics that I didn't even see, since I myself only got into it after it reached page 200 or something.

Most people who talk about the GG thread have never read more than the first page they opened up and didn't like.
Posted March 03, 2017
high rated
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Shadowstalker16: Because the GG thread had pages of real, constructive discussion within it. Off the top of my head, I recall two conversations that arised after some alt-account said that gender and race were social constructs. Also the many conversations on political principles, I even recall a polite discussion between myself and ToxicTom about economic intervention / state intervention, many many posts about freedom of speech, and much more. Also tidbits from smaller issues that didn't warrant their own topics due to limited interest maybe, like individual games being censored or what constitutes a proper localization, or many other topics that I didn't even see, since I myself only got into it after it reached page 200 or something.

Most people who talk about the GG thread have never read more than the first page they opened up and didn't like.
I'd only read the last couple of pages of the GG thread and it seemed pretty tame to me. Some good back and forth without insults. I'm hoping the closure was a very delayed reaction to earlier nastiness but it would have been nice if they dealt with the people crossing lines and hadn't closed the whole thread.
Post edited March 03, 2017 by GreasyDogMeat
Posted March 03, 2017
low rated
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catpower1980: As a reminder, and because some people could wrongfully accuse Fables of enforcing rules, the locking of threads for "hate speech" is not something new. Even two years ago, Judas did it and it didn't result in big dramas about "forum rules":
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/terrosrist_attack_at_charlie_hebdo_office

Rather than bashing Fables, it's more questionable why Judas let the GG thread run for this long as it didn't correlate with the other lockings of threads. So it's just a return to the "normal" course of things rather than some abrupt change.
avatar
Shadowstalker16: Because the GG thread had pages of real, constructive discussion within it. Off the top of my head, I recall two conversations that arised after some alt-account said that gender and race were social constructs. Also the many conversations on political principles, I even recall a polite discussion between myself and ToxicTom about economic intervention / state intervention, many many posts about freedom of speech, and much more. Also tidbits from smaller issues that didn't warrant their own topics due to limited interest maybe, like individual games being censored or what constitutes a proper localization, or many other topics that I didn't even see, since I myself only got into it after it reached page 200 or something.

Most people who talk about the GG thread have never read more than the first page they opened up and didn't like.
Personally, I find that large topics are less useful, and that it would be more helpful to have smaller topics instead. I find that it's harder to follow a discussion when it gets too big, and I am probably not the only one. Also, having a non-controversial topic brought up in a controversial thread will result in people not interested in the controversy missing the non-controversial topic entirely, even if it's something they're interested in discussing.
Posted March 03, 2017
high rated
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fables22: I'm not saying that I didn't expect it. I'm saying that I don't understand it - or more like, I'm pretty shocked by the amount of people who somehow seem to think they should be exempt from these rules, for whatever reason.
I don't think it's really peoples who want to be exempted from these rules or even think that said rules are bad per se. I see it more as peoples who are worried at how you will enforce said rules.

I think a lot of peoples have been burned multiple times by some moderators that tend to moderate based on their own bias and feelings rather than on the actual rules themselves; as in being over-zealous against those they disagree with while being too lenient toward those with which their opinions aligns.

Personally I am in a "wait and see" mode and while I can understand why some are concerned I still think it's too early to draw any "definitive" conclusion like the one Emob78 sadly did.

I do however think oversimplifying those concerns as being from peoples refusing all sort of moderation or peoples who want to be free to post hate speech is not really a good idea and will do nothing to help quench said concerns.
Posted March 03, 2017
low rated
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fables22: Well, maybe because managing the forum isn't and has never really been his job, per say. But yes, locking threads is nothing new. I don't get the drama abut forum rules either.
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Breja: Really? Surely you did not expect things to go perfectly smoothly with no resistance from the people who enjoyed the "lawless"state of affairs and abused it. An outcry from the people who brought us to the point where we need moderation in the first place, all the mass downvoting of posts, all the overly dramatic goodbyes were inevitable, and only proves things are finally going in the right direction.
Indeed. I'm hoping that once fables clamps down, and more of the offenders get banned/spill their drama and leave, we'll actually get some more sanity on the forums.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: I'm not saying that I didn't expect it. I'm saying that I don't understand it - or more like, I'm pretty shocked by the amount of people who somehow seem to think they should be exempt from these rules, for whatever reason.
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Gersen: I don't think it's really peoples who want to be exempted from these rules or even think that said rules are bad per se. I see it more as peoples who are worried at how you will enforce said rules.

I think a lot of peoples have been burned multiple times by some moderators that tend to moderate based on their own bias and feelings rather than on the actual rules themselves; as in being over-zealous against those they disagree with while being too lenient toward those with which their opinions aligns.

Personally I am in a "wait and see" mode and while I can understand why some are concerned I still think it's too early to draw any "definitive" conclusion like the one Emob78 sadly did.

I do however think oversimplifying those concerns as being from peoples refusing all sort of moderation or peoples who want to be free to post hate speech is not really a good idea and will do nothing to help quench said concerns.
To this I can only say that we did have a discussion about forum rules, and I was super willing to listen to suggestions and I even entertained the idea of having the community, more or less, create the rules themselves - because I thought that would be fair and right. Alas, all we got out of this were nasty arguments and petty fights, so I guess more than anything I'm shocked by the amount of people who think they're negotiable. They were negotiable but you weren't able to negotiate, now they're not negotiable. Period.

I don't know if it's just me or something but aren't you people getting a bit tired of the never-ending "we're just going in circles" discussions about all of this?
Posted March 03, 2017
low rated
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UhuruNUru: Simple fact is this is a store forum, intended for discussing about games, that may be on that store.
There's no free speech rights on the internet. Somebody owns every site, and on their site, they decide what is, and isn't allowed.
I only use this site for specific game related discussions, usually they don't stray into political views.

I'm happy to see that some moderation is now being appkied.
Whatevr the rules may be, my policy is attack the argument, not the person making it.
I've never needed others to do my moderating, and expect this to make no difference.
If you can't manage to do that, I don't want to see your posts anywhere.

As to the method used, personal moderation is much better, than specific word filtering, in my opinion.
It's the meaning of the sentences, that matter, not the words used in them.
This is the best option, as far as I'm concererned.
I still want to see where your avatar came from.
Pages:
1
4
5
6
7
8
10
16
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionTo the forum - my last will and testicle(231 posts)(231 posts)
(231 posts)