It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
TwoHandedSword: CD players.

Many of you are too young to remember, but back in the early 80s storage space was measured in literal kilobytes. The 3.5" floppy, commonplace by the end of the decade, maxed out at just under 1.5 megabytes.

Which meant that installing a game, and sometimes even playing it, could involve switching through half a dozen disks or more.

Whereas even the earliest CDs could hold about 680 MB of data, or almost 500 floppies worth. This, back when hard drives were still cramped and expensive, was a godsend! Many early games were set up to play right off the CD, or with a bare minimum install that still accessed the CD for the bulk of the gameplay and graphics.

The difference between Ultima I (original, pre-remaster) and Ultima IV, as just one example, is mind-blowing.
Oh Yeah another good one. I remember installing KQ4 off of 4 5 1/4 in drives. Yeah I remember watching a YT video where the creator installed Win95 off of 14 floppies or something like that. Also another user installed MS office in the same manner. My 1st HDD that I used was a 40MB drive in a Tandy 1000 PC.
avatar
AB2012:
I recommend checking out the Quest for Glory series if you haven't done so, if you want more genre mixing games! And Hero-U.
avatar
Lifthrasil: THE greatest invention in computer games was freely saving my game anywhere.
avatar
AB2012: ^ Agree 100% with this. "But checkpoints adds to the challenge" is another way of saying "we figured out that checkpoint only saves will artificially pad out game-time by +10-15% vs the same content with quicksaves, so instead of making 12hrs of content, we can now make 10.5hr content seem like it's 12hrs long game via enforced cheap replays". It's no accident that major publishers like Ubisoft place checkpoints before lengthy unskippable cutscenes or that they haven't figured out multiple manual save slots provide insurance against game-breaking bugs in larger complex games. They know this stuff by now, it's all down to cheap game-time padding and lazy consolization... (Rebindable keys are another thing that 64KB games got right that 64GB games still struggle with...)
For some games, having check point saves makes sense, as it divides the game into specific challenges to overcome; it's just that the check points need to be frequent enough for the player to not feel too frustrated. Celeste is, perhaps, a good example of this; most of the rooms are very short.

Save anywhere does have the problem of the player saving themself into a corner, something that *has* happened to me (in the SNES version of Ys 3, actually, though I managed to escape by poenting the menu and equipping the Shield Ring), which frequent checkpoints do not have an issue with.

One other advantage of checkpoints is that the game doesn't need to save as much of its state. Things like player health and the locations of enemies and in-flight projectiles, for example, can be omitted from the save file, and having less information in the save file reduces the chance of a game-breaking bug making a save file unusuable or softlocked. (In some games, saving and reloading can fix a softlock situation; funny enough, Wizardry 4 has a part where this can happen early in the game.)
avatar
AB2012: multiple manual save slots provide insurance against game-breaking bugs in larger complex games
Saving less of the game state also helps, particularly in simpler games, or in games that consist of discrete levels (why save the stat of level 1 when the player has already moved on to level 2)?
Post edited December 12, 2019 by dtgreene
avatar
AB2012: - On the hardware side it's "Hardware Transform & Lighting", (remember when 2D / 3D accelerators / MPEG2 decoders used to be on separate cards). We had "2.5D is sort of 3D" games like Doom 1-2 but without 3D on the GPU, we wouldn't have a lot of DirectX7+ games as we know them.
LOL, it was pretty ridiculous. I once had a system that had a Matrox Millennium II, Matrox m3d, dual Voodoo 2s, MPEG2 decoder and a video capture card. That was six cards, all for various video/visual functionality. The mass of daisy chained cables attached to the back of that PC was quite unsightly.
avatar
dtgreene: For some games, having check point saves makes sense, as it divides the game into specific challenges to overcome; it's just that the check points need to be frequent enough for the player to not feel too frustrated. Celeste is, perhaps, a good example of this; most of the rooms are very short.
True (platformers come to mind where checkpoints don't feel too out of place). Quick / multiple / manual save slots still have many other advantages (walkthrough creation assistance, freedom of branching (sometimes it's fun to do something completely out of character in an RPG without messing up your main game), a "bookmark" to save a particularly funny / cool scene you want to show someone else later on, hardware benchmarking (because "official" pre-scripted benchmarks are rarely done at the most demanding part of a game), etc.
avatar
TwoHandedSword: CD players.

Many of you are too young to remember, but back in the early 80s storage space was measured in literal kilobytes. The 3.5" floppy, commonplace by the end of the decade, maxed out at just under 1.5 megabytes.

Which meant that installing a game, and sometimes even playing it, could involve switching through half a dozen disks or more.

Whereas even the earliest CDs could hold about 680 MB of data, or almost 500 floppies worth. This, back when hard drives were still cramped and expensive, was a godsend! Many early games were set up to play right off the CD, or with a bare minimum install that still accessed the CD for the bulk of the gameplay and graphics.

The difference between Ultima I (original, pre-remaster) and Ultima IV, as just one example, is mind-blowing.
Yea, Storage space in general. On my vintage machines (win98/xp) I have all my game cd's ripped to a folder to be mounted to a virtual disk drive because old games required so little space I could install everything I wanted once they got a modern hard drive(500gb+). On the other hand a modern game I just installed took up 60 Gigs.

Also copy right and DRM. I had a game as a kid and the first time it ran it would ask you to make sure you were playing on a backup disk because use in the old drives and handling by uncareful kids would destroy the disk, and using the backup meant the original would be there to make another when the first is destroyed. These days the moment you type the word "backup" the companies look at you like you're wearing an eye patch and a parrot, while ridding a 12lb canon.
Game saving. Not even any specific type of saving, just the concept of being able to turn off the game, boot it back up later, and continue where you left off. Try to imagine beating Morrowind your first time through in one sitting without dying.
avatar
toxicTom: I remember playing one (old) RPG (I forget one) where you could cheat by saving and loading: Steal everything in sight, and when the guards rush towards you - before they attack or talk to you - quickly save and load again. The guards promptly forget what they were up to... :-)
Solution: Only allow saving on the world map. That's how Ultima 3-5 did that, anyway.
Custom maps like DOTA that lead to the creation of MOBAs. LOL and DOTA 2 now attract millions in viewers and are still growing.

I don't personally watch, but this genre put esports on the map.
low rated
avatar
DivisionByZero.620: [...]]
Western-style scrolling shmups. The idea that you can fly something that isn't a glass cannon and doesn't fall apart in 1 hit. No stupid color/polarity changing schemes either, just a good old shield/armor/hull defensive system and more firepower customization. The biggest examples that stand out are Stargunner, Raptor, and Tyrian2000 (the greatest game ever in the genre, never to be equaled again). It's a shame that these games largely aren't made any more and most devs go with the Japanese style.
[...]
Yeah, what happened with all those western style SHMUP's - like Xevius, Gradius, TwinBee, R-Type, 1942, Raiden and so forth.... damd those Japanese!
Hot spot indicator.

Pixel hunting is not fun. One of the most irritating gaming experiences you can have is getting stuck because you didn't place the mouse cursor over the exact pixel that recognizes a new item to interact with. For adventure and role-playing games (especially for low-resolution ones or if, for design reasons, items blend easily into thr background), hot spot indicators are a godsend.

And the best part is that if someone enjoys the hardcore artificial difficulty, or just doesn't want to use them, they can ignore it. I don't even use the hot spot indicator in most rooms, at least not the first times I visit them. But when I want to, I welcome those little lights/stars/whatever that guide me to the next key.

Good puzzles should be about using logic to interact with objects and the environment, not finding a needle in a haystack.
avatar
Scrapack: Also copy right and DRM. I had a game as a kid and the first time it ran it would ask you to make sure you were playing on a backup disk because use in the old drives and handling by uncareful kids would destroy the disk, and using the backup meant the original would be there to make another when the first is destroyed. These days the moment you type the word "backup" the companies look at you like you're wearing an eye patch and a parrot, while ridding a 12lb canon.
Neither of them are new. Copyright is far older than computers, and DRM, called "copy protection" back then, existed even as far back as the days that computer programs were stored on cassette tape (yes, really).
avatar
toxicTom: I remember playing one (old) RPG (I forget one) where you could cheat by saving and loading: Steal everything in sight, and when the guards rush towards you - before they attack or talk to you - quickly save and load again. The guards promptly forget what they were up to... :-)
avatar
dtgreene: Solution: Only allow saving on the world map. That's how Ultima 3-5 did that, anyway.
That sounds allot like the Level Passwords that sometimes include armor, weapons, or power ups, but were usualy just stage selection. Again was there a legitimate reason for doing that by the time of 32bit consoles and windows XP computers? I doubt it.

avatar
Scrapack: Also copy right and DRM. I had a game as a kid and the first time it ran it would ask you to make sure you were playing on a backup disk because use in the old drives and handling by uncareful kids would destroy the disk, and using the backup meant the original would be there to make another when the first is destroyed. These days the moment you type the word "backup" the companies look at you like you're wearing an eye patch and a parrot, while ridding a 12lb canon.
avatar
dtgreene: Neither of them are new. Copyright is far older than computers, and DRM, called "copy protection" back then, existed even as far back as the days that computer programs were stored on cassette tape (yes, really).
I know copyright goes back at least as far as mass producible text/images, but the extent to which the user is limited to enforce it has changed. As I said, I had a win98 pc game that actively demanded that I create a back up, when now most consoles are designed to detect backups and refuse them. One of the early Prince of Persia games had a code in the manual to get past a level as a early DRM, passive, offline, and indefinite, that as long as you had both you could install it forever no matter how many times you reinstall your os, or upgrade your pc. Some companies today have made it so that you can only use the activation codes a limited number of times, and many unlike daemon tools don't let you suspend a licence on one pc/instal to use on another, If win10 updated two days later and breaks itself forcing a reinstall, that is one activation wasted.

I bought a game from the company that produced the game, instead of waiting for the disk I accepted the code to turn the trial into the full version. two or three years later and a half dozen installs, and I wanted to play it again, and found Amazon bought it's publisher, and subsequently it, so they could make their own original games. Imaging trying to tell a company you bought a key to their game from a company that has a different name but is also them and so now they have to honor it because their programming team is the same team who sold me the key in the first place. No prizes for guessing how well that works. I buy it again from Amazon who is now the new copyright owner, it is only available as a download but they promise it will be in my library for future downloads forever even if they remove it from their store, sounds like the xbox360 doesn't, or GoG? Hard drive fails unexpectedly, turns out they lied and I can not redownload the game because they decided to not offer it any more, So I go to eBay and buy a used disk installer made by the original creator/publisher, works like a charm.
With 98 I just had to copy the disk before the original was unreadable as is caused by classic tower optical drives, but I had a favorite PS2 game that had a cracked center spindle getting worse from the springs despite super glue reinforcement, but unscratched, can I just copy it with my pc that doesn't have a spring holder and run the back up as long as both disks are always together in possession of only one owner at a time ust like some of the old Win98 conditions? Nope, have to buy the game again, so two cases are made for twice the smog, and I don't even get a discount for returning the husk like a core charge.(last part is a joke)
I read that American McGee Scrapland has such invasive DRM that it would interfere authentic Scrapland installs, interfere with non-Scrapland programs, slow the computer, and generally act like a Trojan Horse.

Copy right isn't new, but the new way it is now enforced has become a new standards, affecting games across most genres and platforms. How much the new corporate legal stances and DRM enforcement types limits the user has changed greatly from windows 98 to present. We "buy" DRM free GoG games like any classic cd game, but we are not allowed to sell them like classic CD's even the ones with the same game. I'm not trying to argue that GoG isn't DRM free(i know its legally complicated), just the effect DRM has had on the market. Consider the simple fact that GoG advertises itself as DRM free as a sign of how important that has be come when it used to be a given with much of Windows 98 and to a diminishing extent XP.
Post edited December 13, 2019 by Scrapack
I'd argue that the PC platform and Microsoft Windows was a tremendous innovation.

It has a platform with decades of life. Games from 20 years ago are still playable - 30 years ago with Dosbox. and other emulators. with no involvement of the original developer needed.

Before the PC platform, games died when the hardware they ran on were discontinued and obsolete. Your cherished game collection is worthless when your console dies and you can't source another.

Microsoft's willingess to mantain compatibility over the long term was crucial to GOGs success.
- flexible save system
- the computer mouse (for everything that needs aiming or management of some kind)
- 8+ Button game-pads with digital and analogue controls
- getting rid of mandatory physical media (although that meant massive increase of online authentication before the DRM-free movement)
- split screen (which sadly went away again in most cases)