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htown1980: What? If you say you don't think gg are harassers I have to believe you, but if I say I don't like gg because I think it is stupid, not harassers, I don't get believed, notwithstanding I have said that all along? Sorry tough guy, I think you're lying there.
You have to believe me? Didn't I explicitly grant you that the harassers might identify with GG so that we could have this discussion?

And you're against GG because it's stupid, not because of harassment or threats? Then why is it you continue to push this analogy revolving around guilt by association with those making threats or harassing others?

Also: I don't particularly care that you're anti-GG. That's your opinion. What I've argued against since we began this back-and-forth is your foolish analogy.

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htown1980: They don't have to be identical though, there just needs to be a relevant similarity. That's the mistake you and others consistently make, "the analogy fails because the two groups are different in some way". Correct, I am not saying they are identical, I am just saying the example (not the groups, the situation itself) is analogous.
Neither the groups nor the situations are analogous.

Edit: Actually, the better way to phrase this would be that the nature of the group is very relevant to the situation.

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htown1980: You think you just choose to believe whatever you want? I'm not sure that's how faith works...

A church is a building, its nothing like GG. I am suggesting being a member of a congregation is like being a member of GG, in that both are groups that you can, based purely on ideological reasons, stay with or leave, you can leave that congregation and join another congregation if you so choose, without changing your belief system.

Maybe we could change it to a social group. Lets call it the "Pokemon Fanclub". The Brooklyn chapter and the New York Chapter both love Pokemon. The Brooklyn chapter is misandrist (again not, saying #gg is misandrist). Now, you can stick with the misandrist Brooklyn chapter, notwithstanding that you might not be misandrist yourself or you can leave and join the NY one. If you don't leave, however, you run the risk of being considered a supporter of misandry by way of... "guilt by association".

Does it really matter whether the group is religious or not? Of course not, pokemon, religion, etc, its all irrelevant to the analogy. Its all just background, the key is, you can choose to stick with that organisation or not, and if you don't, going back to the discussion about guilt by association, you run that risk.
The Brooklyn chapter might be explicitly misandrist by creed or implicitly misandrist by failing to exercise a power to remove misandrist members. Neither is analogous to GG, as pointed out and [url=http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_gamergate_news_thread/post1098]here.

You continue to dress your analogy in new clothes, but it doesn't change anything.

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htown1980: Yes. Well done. If the violence continues, and they do not leave, notwithstanding they could do so, they are guilty by association. It is not the same as committing the violence, but by continuing to be in that group, rather than leave, they implicitly condone those actions. If they do not condone those actions, they must leave.

p.s. Are you comparing the violence and destruction of OWS to #gg? That is outrageous! How dare you! #gg has not been responsible for any destruction of property or criminal acts! What is wrong with you!?!?
I really should thank you. I'm literally laughing out loud reading your replies. It's putting me in a great mood. ;)

I offered it not as a legitimate comparison but in hopes that it might cause you to realize how ridiculous your own analogy is... That you missed the point is hilarious.

And of course by actually accepting the analogy, it is you who are making the "outrageous" comparison. :P

So... just to be clear: According to you, open movements more-or-less cannot exist, because once a single person commits a crime in the name of the movement, even if explicitly denounced by the overwhelming majority of that movement, the entire movement should disband or else be guilty by association?

I'm still not clear on why a tiny minority gets to decide what the group stands for... But I imagine you have some glorious string of nonsense justifying it?
Post edited December 12, 2014 by SeduceMePlz
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Great interview with Adrian Chmielarz on Niche Gamer, http://nichegamer.net/2014/12/adrian-chmielarz-interview-gamergate-vitriol-and-saying-enough-is-enough/

One thing that I caught of interest about reviews,
I thought this was similar to my view: Note this is not about being a bad or good critic, that one is different. A good critic will fight their own bias, try to empathize with different takes, look for unusual, interesting angles, and only then express and explain an opinion. A bad critic pushes their agenda even despite facts or reason.
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htown1980: What? If you say you don't think gg are harassers I have to believe you, but if I say I don't like gg because I think it is stupid, not harassers, I don't get believed, notwithstanding I have said that all along? Sorry tough guy, I think you're lying there.
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SeduceMePlz: You have to believe me? Didn't I explicitly grant you that the harassers might identify with GG so that we could have this discussion?

And you're against GG because it's stupid, not because of harassment or threats? Then why is it you continue to push this analogy revolving around guilt by association with those making threats or harassing others?

Also: I don't particularly care that you're anti-GG. That's your opinion. What I've argued against since we began this back-and-forth is your foolish analogy.
Why do I continue with an analogy revolving around guilt by association? Because the discussion I was having with 227 was specifically about the following comment from Ryan Holiday in his article:

"Conversely, it allows opponents to paint you as the opposite. It also creates an environment in which a lot of people are riled up and members who are loosely associated can do things that reflect poorly on everyone else".

Of course you would know that, because I directly quoted that comment in my post containing the analogy. I also said that, I read his article as focussing on the perception others will have, rather than what is actually happening. Again, you would know this already.

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htown1980: Yes. Well done. If the violence continues, and they do not leave, notwithstanding they could do so, they are guilty by association. It is not the same as committing the violence, but by continuing to be in that group, rather than leave, they implicitly condone those actions. If they do not condone those actions, they must leave.

p.s. Are you comparing the violence and destruction of OWS to #gg? That is outrageous! How dare you! #gg has not been responsible for any destruction of property or criminal acts! What is wrong with you!?!?
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SeduceMePlz: I really should thank you. I'm literally laughing out loud reading your replies. It's putting me in a great mood. ;)

I offered it not as a legitimate comparison but in hopes that it might cause you to realize how ridiculous your own analogy is... That you missed the point is hilarious.

And of course by actually accepting the analogy, it is you who are making the "outrageous" comparison. :P

So... just to be clear: According to you, open movements more-or-less cannot exist, because once a single person commits a crime in the name of the movement, even if explicitly denounced by the overwhelming majority of that movement, the entire movement should disband or else be guilty by association?

I'm still not clear on why a tiny minority gets to decide what the group stands for... But I imagine you have some glorious string of nonsense justifying it?
I'm sorry, have you changed your analogy from "Some members of Occupy Wall Street perpetrated violence, destruction of property, and other criminal acts" to "a single person commits a crime in the name of the movement?" Truly wonderful. Colour me not surprised at all.
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htown1980: Why do I continue with an analogy revolving around guilt by association? Because the discussion I was having with 227 was specifically about the following comment from Ryan Holiday in his article:

"Conversely, it allows opponents to paint you as the opposite. It also creates an environment in which a lot of people are riled up and members who are loosely associated can do things that reflect poorly on everyone else".

Of course you would know that, because I directly quoted that comment in my post containing the analogy. I also said that, I read his article as focussing on the perception others will have, rather than what is actually happening. Again, you would know this already.
Yes, you've been making a foolish analogy to support Ryan Holiday's fallacious notion of guilt by association. I get that. Not sure what your point is...

I don't recall you saying "This analogy doesn't hold up, it's terrible, but it's what people what will think anyway."

Instead, when the analogy has been challenged, you've defended it.

Admit that it's trash if that's what you actually think now, and we have no conflict... yeah?

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htown1980: I'm sorry, have you changed your analogy from "Some members of Occupy Wall Street perpetrated violence, destruction of property, and other criminal acts" to "a single person commits a crime in the name of the movement?" Truly wonderful. Colour me not surprised at all.
The exact number isn't the point... the point is "tiny minority denounced by overwhelming majority".

But if you want to play the number game... sure, why not: How many does it take to taint a movement, group, etc?

---

Actually, feel free to ignore that. I notice that both you and I are losing rep. I don't care much, and I doubt that you do, but I'm going to take it as a signal that others here are tired of this tangent and see it as derailing or distracting from the news (which it admittedly is). You can post a last word if you like, but I'm going to drop it for now. Thanks for getting me thru a boring night. ;)
Post edited December 12, 2014 by SeduceMePlz
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TwilightBard: snip
Good stuff.
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htown1980: Obviously it wasn't autocorrect. I don't know how "to kill a" could change to "tequila". Thanks for you analysis of the arguments though, it means a lot to me.
If you saw what typing on a touchscreen results in due to actual or perceived wrong clicks you wouldn't need to ask... Still, good pun, all the merit to you. ;)
Post edited December 12, 2014 by Brasas
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htown1980: Why do I continue with an analogy revolving around guilt by association? Because the discussion I was having with 227 was specifically about the following comment from Ryan Holiday in his article:

"Conversely, it allows opponents to paint you as the opposite. It also creates an environment in which a lot of people are riled up and members who are loosely associated can do things that reflect poorly on everyone else".

Of course you would know that, because I directly quoted that comment in my post containing the analogy. I also said that, I read his article as focussing on the perception others will have, rather than what is actually happening. Again, you would know this already.
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SeduceMePlz: Yes, you've been making a foolish analogy to support Ryan Holiday's fallacious notion of guilt by association. I get that. Not sure what your point is...

I don't recall you saying "This analogy doesn't hold up, it's terrible, but it's what people what will think anyway."

Instead, when the analogy has been challenged, you've defended it.

Admit that it's trash if that's what you actually think now, and we have no conflict... yeah?
Admit that its trash? No dice. Admit that its imperfect, deal. Your analogies were imperfect as well. My whole point was Ryan Holiday wasn't even talking about actual guilt by association, but public perception, if you can't see that from his quote, then I think all is lost.

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htown1980: I'm sorry, have you changed your analogy from "Some members of Occupy Wall Street perpetrated violence, destruction of property, and other criminal acts" to "a single person commits a crime in the name of the movement?" Truly wonderful. Colour me not surprised at all.
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SeduceMePlz: The exact number isn't the point... the point is "tiny minority denounced by overwhelming majority".

But if you want to play the number game... sure, why not: How many does it take to taint a movement, group, etc?
Its not a number, its a percentage, and its 3%. As soon as 3% of the group start doing bad things, the group is tainted by public opinion and, if they want to be able to get their point across without that taint, they must move on.

"Conversely [if 3% of a group are bad eggs and you don't move on], it allows opponents to paint you as the opposite. It also creates an environment in which a lot of people are riled up and members who are loosely associated can do things that reflect poorly on everyone else".

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SeduceMePlz: Actually, feel free to ignore that. I notice that both you and I are losing rep. I don't care much, and I doubt that you do, but I'm going to take it as a signal that others here are tired of this tangent and see it as derailing or distracting from the news (which it admittedly is). You can post a last word if you like, but I'm going to drop it for now. Thanks for getting me thru a boring night. ;)
No. You feel free to ignore me.
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Brasas: If you saw what typing on a touchscreen results in due to actual or perceived wrong clicks you wouldn't need to ask... Still, good pun, all the merit to you. ;)
Until an embarrassingly old age, I actually thought that was what the book was called. Don't get me started on how I thought the villain in Asterix comments was a bloke called "Kay-Sar".
Post edited December 12, 2014 by htown1980
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htown1980: snip
I'll avoid embarassing myself by thinking of examples like yours, particularly around song lyrics. Suffice to say, they exist :)

Still, to interject again (I want to make a longer reply to Twilight later) but you continue to show a bit of black and white thinking. The public perception and the guilt by association are not an either /or. Public perception is mainly driven precisely by guilt by association. So it's both (like the SJW/ feminism topic and the ethics in journalism topics are not either /or - they're clearly connected, and both sides see that, which is why this escalated so rapidly)

So, you having a point on group dynamics and public perception does not negate other points on ethics. It's both, and to go meta again, your combative expression is not helping you make your limited point, since you prefer to defend the weak, or attack the weak, rather than defend your stronger points, or attack the strong. (kinda like many in GG! how's that for a comparison? ;)

You can say we are idealists arguing guilt by association should not be a factor, yet you seem to agree it is not a "good" method (ethics again, surprise!). And in practice, given the GG side does believe the media is consciously, likely maliciously, causing said perception via guilt by association, and we know where the media sides overwhelmingly, how do you suggest to combat the perception? It's not like charities, or mechanisms to fight harrassment inside of GG are being given publicity by the "enemy". You can see this as another example of saying journalism should not be propaganda, even if it's sincee propaganda? Of course, you probably are also sincere in thinking the best way forward is for GG to surrendering the point... right? You idealist, you, as if that's ever going to happen :)

But again, it's not like you're interested in a substantial discussion on journalism. I at least have given you ample opportunity for that. So carry on, carry on...
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. In two parts

V. good article from Sarkeasian Effect producer Davis Aurini. Gets behind the problem behind the Neo-feminist question. Read on ...

http://www.staresattheworld.com/2014/11/catch-22-feminism/

PART ONE

The Catch-22 of Feminism

by Aurini ·


“I’m not denying that women are treated horribly in the Middle East – of course they are! But there’s never been a culture that treated women poorly, without subjecting the men to equal barbarism. There’s no such thing as ‘Patriarchal’ conspiracy countries that hold women down for the benefit of the men; wherever you find the abuse of women, you’ll find the abuse of men as well.”

I was channelling Karen Straughn when I said this; it was she who pointed out this obvious insight to me at the KSU Men’s Conference.

“Are you kidding? In Iran they stone women to death for being raped!”

“Yes, they do – and during the Iran/Iraq war they sent boys out in human waves to clear minefields! Have you never heard of “the hand that rocks the cradle”? Do you think that the Muslim men who abuse women had mothers who were saints?”

“Whatever, the system was set up by men for their own benefit.”

It’s at this point that I had to leave the conversation; the woman I was speaking with only saw the suffering of her own sex, and if you can’t admit that a fact exists, being informed of it simply won’t convince you.

This wilful blindness is at the core of Feminism, as well as her quieter sister Female Entitlement. I am dismayed by how prevalent it is. It is as if they are watching a 3D movie with only one of the lenses, in this case the rose-tinted one: the blue-lines of male cruelty stand out in sharp relief, while the pink-lines of female cruelty disappear into the background. All of the good men do – whether it be fighting in wars, fixing the car, or merely being her rock when she is emotionally distraught – is relegated to the background. “That’s just what those silly boys do for fun!” Ignore the bloodied knuckles and grime that come along with the masculine role. Meanwhile, female sacrifices are lauded and celebrated – their nurturing, their decorating, their sacrifices aren’t ‘just what women do’, they’re heroic!

Women and Feminists will accurately diagnose all of the male mistakes that feed into a scandal like the University of Virginia gang-rape¹, while denying any female involvement, whether it be the Women’s Studies department encouraging the hook-up culture, or the individual women who enable and abet the crime. They correctly diagnose the comically-exaggerated masculinity of the frat culture where ‘being a real man’ means acting like a barbaric lout. They utterly miss the equally-barbaric behaviour of the girls who drink with the intention of losing control, back-stab one-another for male attention, and refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

They correctly identify UVA as a ‘Rape Culture’; they fail to notice that the women were equally complicit in manufacturing it.

ͼ-Ѻ-ͽ

Freud couldn’t have been more right when he noted the prevalence of ‘Penis Envy’ amongst his female clients. Women who envy the metaphysics of the masculine – the solar, the constructive, the active agent – in contrast to femininity’s lunar, fertile, passivity. It was envy in the sense that it wasn’t aspirational – he was not describing women who wanted to become great scientists, great musicians, or to earn the accolades which are largely won by the male sex – they wanted to take the accolades which they viewed as part of the male endowment.

In other words, they want to earn the same salaries as men, but they’ll allow us to keep the 99% figure for workplace deaths.²

Although individual women will occasionally achieve excellence in a temperamentally masculine field – and men will occasionally do the inverse – social institutions are what occur when the natural inclinations of the sexes go through multiple iterations, thus certain areas and fields become specifically masculine or specifically feminine, despite the innate differentiation between the sexes being relatively minor. Occasionally we wind up with an institution which is a bad fit – for example, the lack of male Elementary School teachers, or the lack of female programmers ten years ago (there is strong evidence that women make exceptionally talented coders). In some of these cases it is worth questioning the culture which led to the imbalance.

Other times, trying to correct this imbalance is folly: forcing the Orange County municipal government to spend tens of thousands of dollars retrofitting fire stations so that a handful of women can be ‘equal’ is an absurd and ineffective use of finite resources.

Elementary schools would benefit from having more men on staff; Computer Science departments would benefit from being welcoming to women who show a natural aptitude for programming; Fire Departments are harmed by mandating sex-inclusivity, partly because of the budgetary waste, but also because of the impact it will have on the masculine culture and male bonding which such a job entails.

Fire Fighting is too important of an institution for ‘Equality’ to trump effectiveness. Ironically, the very women who would have the moral fortitude to make great Fire Fighters would be the last ones to demand the ‘Right’ to be Fire Fighters: those who are self-sacrificing would never demand that an institution handicap itself for their own glory.

Thus we come to the Catch-22 which Feminists find themselves in: the fact that they are selfish enough to argue Feminism in the first place is the very proof that they are too morally immature to be treated as equals.

ͼ-Ѻ-ͽ

The Baby Boomers were largely satisfied to proclaim the equality of women, while living by the standards of “gendered”³ institutions. They got to have their cake and eat it to: pretending to be equal, while embracing the institutional protections that were traditionally offered for both sexes.

Up until the modern time, it was well known that women were far more affected by the sexual act than men; women are more emotional about it, it affects their long-term marriage prospects, and it can even impact their mental stability. Men, for their part, will pathologize their ‘male disposability’. Just as the majority of women cannot help but be negatively impacted by casual sex, men cannot shake the psychological necessity of proving their usefulness to the world. A man needs to justify his existence, to sweat and bleed and achieve, and if social institutions don’t channel this equitably and productively, a whole generation of young boys could wind up feeding themselves into the wood chipper of an exploitative culture.

The men of the Baby Boomer generation were largely unharmed by paying lip-service to Feminism; women weren’t chomping at the bit to destroy social institutions, and divorce was more affordable during the economic boom-times. It’s with the Millenial generation that we see the damage being wrought. Young men who embrace ‘Blue Pill’ ideas of male disposability fail to demand fair treatment of their sex, as the women demand equality without responsibility – and the Baby Boomer men who are in charge of this system turn a blind-eye to any male complaints, since as men we’re supposed to sacrifice for the greater good of the group.

Which is true – but we were never supposed to sacrifice for free.
Post edited December 12, 2014 by noncompliantgame
PART TWO

Up until recent times, Rights and Responsibilities were understood to go hand in hand. The Right of Citizenship (of voting, of directing society) came with the responsibility of maintaining it; of being willing to sacrifice for the greater good. These days ‘Citizen’ has become a slur amongst law enforcement and the criminal classes, because the responsibility has evaporated. The modern ‘Citizen’ is a peasant, begging for scraps from the table of their Lord.

To truly be a Citizen, one must respect the sacrifices of others; even the King must honour the life of his lowliest foot soldier. If women in general were truly the equals they claimed to be, we would see them honouring the sacrifices of the men in their lives. Mothers would quote Camille Paglia, cautioning their daughters that “If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts.” Rather than envying the male Nobel Prize winner they’d be honouring him, they’d either be aspiring to his level, or appreciating the sacrifices and dedication which were required for his great work.

They wouldn’t be challenging their male contemporaries by chanting “Anything you can do I can do better!” – they’d be thankful, reciprocal, and feminine. Chivalry goes both ways.

Were a Feminist to respond to this, she would concoct stories of historical oppression which fall apart under scrutiny, or point towards our current crop of ‘men’ in power who are exploitative of women (they’re also exploitative of other men, but the Feminist won’t notice that part). This is just further evidence of her inability to empathize with the sex that’s been dying and bleeding to protect her own.

In the light of this generalized insensitivity to the suffering of men, I can’t help looking back to traditional teachings: whether it’s Eve eating the apple, or Cinderella’s cruel step-sisters, the female sex has been suffused with envy since our race was young; and when you are envious you cannot empathize.

This is why tradition cautions against allowing women into positions of leadership. Far too many of them want the prestige, without the responsibility.

Not all of them – thank God! – there are some Viragos⁴ out there – but they’re few and far between.

Men have their own sins, of course, but we’re discussing governance, not the immortal soul. Perhaps one day women en masse will earn their seat at the UN – and what a wonderful day that will be! – but today we live in a world where Emma Watson feels the need to lecture the UN about how men can sacrifice even more for her sex, rather than thanking them for all that they’ve already sacrificed. Rather than thanking her future King for his service in Afghanistan, she spouted the same old tired nonsense about how difficult women have it in Western countries.

Until women as a whole grow up and stop embracing these petty feminist complaints, they cannot be trusted with the reins of civilization.

Notes:

1. This is understandably a contentious claim in the Manosphere; given the extremely high prevalence of False Rape Accusations, many of us have a knee-jerk skepticism whenever we hear about an incident that could be drunken regret. Furthermore, it’s quite frustrating that the Rolling Stone article uses pseudonyms for the accusers of this most serious crime. This does seem to be a legitimate case, however (though we should reserve judgment until this is proven in a court of law), and my sources inform me that there is a great deal of cultural toxicity amongst UVA frats.

Many have been questioning the administration’s actions in suspending all frat activities due to these allegations: my own opinion on this is informed by my military experience. If I were the Colonel of a military unit, and something like this occurred, I would be going on the warpath. I wouldn’t just shut down the ‘frat activities’ of the Junior Rank’s mess – I’d also be raking all of the leadership over the coals, and launching investigations into the civilian women who were complicit in all of this (in Canada, the military can charge civilian women when fraternization gets out of control).

The fraternity deserves to be tied down and have the boots put to them – preferably steel toed – but so does every individual working in the administration of UVA’s women’s services. A situation like this doesn’t develop overnight; it requires systemic failures in leadership in multiple sectors for it to get this bad.

I’d be prosecuting everybody responsible for bringing shame to my organization – including, but not restricted to, the fraternities themselves.

EDIT: I jumped the gun on this. She held on to this story for several years, and particularly interesting is the UVA’s official stance, stating that “…many details that were previously not disclosed…” At this point it’s unlikely that the truth can be determined.

2. The “70¢ on the dollar” statistic is a canard which disappears when you measure hours worked, and responsibility (in fact, some studies suggest that women earn more than men for the same work, due to Affirmative Action legislation). The reason women earn less than men as a whole is because they choose easier jobs, shorter hours, and less responsibility; women as an aggregate group have different interests than men, and this is reflected in their career choices and salaries.

3. Humans do not have ‘genders’, they have sexes. Only nouns can be ‘gendered’, applying this term to people and institutions destroys the meaning of the word.

4. The latin root for Virago is similar to Virgin, both mean (approximately) “A woman who has displayed the self-discipline and virtue of a man”.
A good interview:

http://mediamonarchy.blogspot.de/2014/12/sargon.html
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noncompliantgame: snip
Just to clarify... You are trolling, right? I mean, I'm having a hard time believing that you posted this to actually convince anyone of the point he is arguing. I mean, I could be wrong, but... yeesh.
Post edited December 14, 2014 by Jonesy89
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noncompliantgame: snip
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Jonesy89: Just to clarify... You are trolling, right? I mean, I'm having a hard time believing that you posted this to actually convince anyone of the point he is arguing. I mean, I could be wrong, but... yeesh.
I agree with it most likely to be trolling:

"Fire Departments are harmed by mandating sex-inclusivity, partly because of the budgetary waste, but also because of the impact it will have on the masculine culture and male bonding which such a job entails."

"If women in general were truly the equals they claimed to be, we would see them honouring the sacrifices of the men in their lives. Mothers would quote Camille Paglia, cautioning their daughters that “If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts.” Rather than envying the male Nobel Prize winner they’d be honouring him, they’d either be aspiring to his level, or appreciating the sacrifices and dedication which were required for his great work. "

"Until women as a whole grow up and stop embracing these petty feminist complaints, they cannot be trusted with the reins of civilization."
Post edited December 14, 2014 by Piranjade
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Jonesy89: snip
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Piranjade: Snip
He's [noncompliantgamer] sincere and earnest in my opinion. Just consider how he posts these wall of text.

This is much more traditionalist views [Aurini's] than you both may be used to, yet you should recognize the echoes to women in the armed forces topics, as well see that he quoted a woman who is a polemicist, kinda like Leigh Alexander?

Edit for clarity.
Post edited December 14, 2014 by Brasas
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Piranjade: I agree with it most likely to be trolling
Aurini certainly is, catapulting his misogynist stance way into the realm of insanity or at the very least historical amnesia. Proposing the theory of a universal cultural balance concerning the equal mistreatment of both sexes, be it past, present or future, is about the most stupid thing in this debate I've read all year. I'm kind of glad that it is posted here in full; the article does unveil Aurini's true colors and poor reasoning so spectacularly that it is likely to be deleted at one point.

Of course, this kind of delirium fits in with the "SJW ruin our games" conspiracy hogwash the "Sarkeesian Effect" movie is supposedly about. My condolences to the 393 patreon supporters.
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http://www.staresattheworld.com/2014/11/catch-22-feminism/

Just out of interest a "neo-reactionary" monarchist is somebody whose politicial view/ideology is, that monarchism as a ruling politicial system in a state would be the one to go for aswell as returning to "old" values?

Furthermore the term "neo-reactionary" is quite new for me, I know the term reactionary which has been used quite differently to describe certain politicial movements/groups in a given country at a given time. From what I could look up, it seems the term for itself coins something like a "radical conversative". David Aurini the author of the above text says from himself, that he is a neo-reactionary monarchist. When you consider those glasses of a perspective on the world, the text makes sense - although I do not share his view.

I think one question which has never been asked or adressed in all those articles is, what is the kind of equality feminism is going for?

The feminist movement has reached quite a lot of it's initial goals. When I look at those articles and their views which came up in the GG discussion, it seems more to me that "equality" in front of the law, equal treatment of women in our existing western societies is no longer the main goal. It seems to me the main goal is the extinction of gender and associated characteristics as a social, cultural construct. One could argue that this is direct implication of a cultural alignment of genders because the associated traits with one gender are not directly comparable with the other role, but the question which I ask myself is: Such a change would encompass giving up/normalizing the traits and characteristics of both genders, while when I look at the proponents and authors of certain articles it sounds more like aiming for "privilege". The reason for this in my opinion is, that the proposed change is not really a matter of this or that gender role, it is a change which touches our culture in its roots and views on society, the moral and ethical values aswell. And with the "We do it, it is ok, but it is not ok when you do it "- argumentation you hit a wall.
Post edited December 14, 2014 by MaGo72