Got me one of these babies. The CH Flightstick Pro. As far as I'm aware that's the only CH stick that is ambidextrous. I just prefer its simpler design over its fiddly-looking Combatstick brethren. Works like a charm for all the flight sims that are available on GOG. Haven't played anything newer with it.

A good quality stick is definitely worth the extra price because those like the CH line will last a very long time. I used to love Logitech's old Wingman line in the '90s. The ones they produce nowadays with the Extreme are just cheap pieces of junk in comparison.

They've been around just about forever; I think my first-ever joystick was a CH. Currently have a 10+ year old Logi Wingman of some sort. Springs are really limp and the rubber is split. It was a decent unit (not great, but good) but the poor thing is plain wore the heck out.

I'd normally go for something a bit simpler like the Flightstick but it could use 2-4 more buttons for a couple games I've played. Good to hear that yours is holding up well - maybe CH is the way for me to go, price-be-damned.

I picked up a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro really cheap second hand, but I have not used it much.

I didn't have any of those problems, although I did end up messing up the cable and had to manually fix it so that computer would detect it again. TAC-2 would have been better, but at least when I was looking for a USB version of it long time ago from internet, couldn't find it in any shop.
Sure, these joysticks are not for new games, except maybe some indie platformers or something.
But I just find it somehow necessary to own a "real" old school joystick :)
It's a different experience, highly recommended :p

I think my MS Sidewinder Precision Pro 2 is finally breaking down, or at least I now seem to have issues keeping it calibrated in Tie Fighter. It keeps drifting a bit, and small fine movements when trying to accurately get some static object (like a mine) into your sight are getting hard. It is as if it sometimes jumps a bit to the opposite direction, when you movie it slightly.

I'll still have to test it a bit though with other games so that it isn't a specific issue with that game, or DOSBox.

Anyway, good thing I bought the Thrustmaster T.16000M as a backup. If the Sidewinder dies, so be it.

I have the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X. It's a great stick; amazingly well put together for the price. Very pleased with it. I have a noob question: All the older games such as the early Wing Commander games and X-Wing Special Edition etc. - Are these flight stick compatible, or do they just utilise the old 8-way digital joystick control?

They'll work with analogue input and everything, although none of the Wing Commander games before 4 support any axis beyond x and y. You have to hold the 2 button to roll instead of bank.

Tie Fighter (the 98 version at least) supports the throttle, but uses the same hold-button-to-roll scheme as WC.

Thankyou Glowsquid, you're a legend. That's all I needed to know. Now to see what all the fuss is about with these old Star Wars games :)

EDIT: Ninja'ed, but whatever...

On PC, the games expect analog controls (meaning, not just digital on/off, but smooth movement where you move or turn the faster the more you push the stick). Which is of course how it should be for flight and racing games.

Unlike on many other old video gaming devices and computers (NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, Commodore 64 and Amiga...), PC gaming controllers have traditionally always been about analog sticks. The early PC (analog) joysticks in the 80s looked something like this (I think Apple IIc also used similar joysticks?):

[url=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch_products_mach_1_joystick.jpg]http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch_products_mach_1_joystick.jpg[/url]

I don't think digital joysticks and gamepads so prevalent on other gaming systems were The Thing on PC, even though later e.g. Gravis released some pretty successful digital gamepads for PC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravis_PC_GamePad

I think overall PC gamers didn't see the point with that kind of digital gaming controllers, because you could just as well use a keyboard (arrow keys etc.) for somewhat similar (digital) controls.

Note though that if your PC flightstick has the additional axis (rotating the stick), DOS games didn't yet support it. Support for that extra axis came more prevalent with Windows 9x games with DirectInput, in fact it was probably Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro that introduced this feature to PC joysticks, and later many other joystick makers added it too to their products. That's why e.g. the 1993/1994 X-Wing and Tie Fighter games, or most of the Wing Commander games, don't support that rudder/spin control. Windows games (Wing Commander Prophecy, Descent Freespace 1-2 etc.) usually support it.

Holy moly - memory flood with that pic you attached. Goes back a long way: I think I had one for the Apple ][e.

"I think my MS Sidewinder Precision Pro 2 is finally breaking down, or at least I now seem to have issues keeping it calibrated in Tie Fighter."

Maybe i was too hasty. I didn't see any erratic behavior when testing and calibrating it with joy.cpl, and now it seems to work fine also on Tie Fighter, precise and all, no drifting etc. Earlier it was oddly jumpy, and wouldn't center completely.

I did one change to DOSBox configuration settings though, "timed=true" I changed to "timed=false", not fully sure what it changes and whether it had effect to this. "Joysticktype" has always been "4axis".

So the Thrustmaster T.16000M has to wait yet more for its turn, Sidewinder is back on duty.

I think I've seen more of these as a kid (never owned one though):

[url=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch_products_mach_2_joystick.jpg]http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch_products_mach_2_joystick.jpg[/url]

[url=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch_products_mach_3_joystick.jpg]http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch_products_mach_3_joystick.jpg[/url]

Apparently these are the newer version then, going by its name? (Mach 1/Mach 2/Mach 3). I think I saw these also with some Apple II machines. Apple II never was that popular here though.

That Mach 2 joystick always seemed like some laboratory equipment to me, I thought it is used for controlling robotic arms in factories etc. Maybe it was also used for that?

I have one of these too, and I'd still use it if it could be used with modern Windows with USB. It didn't look that fancy, but it was great, and also introduced that twisting stick (Z-axis?) feature that most PC flightsticks have nowadays. I know some people dislike that feature and prefer HOTAS systems with a separate rudder, but for a generic flightstick, I think it is a good feature that is very useful especially in space combat simulations.

I also kept it around for my Pentium 133 retro-gaming machine, for DOS games and such, but in the end that PC hasn't been used at all, as DOSBox on modern PCs works so great. With my a newer Win98SE and WinXP retro-PCs, the more modern USB flightsticks like MS Sidewinder Precision Pro 2 seem to work fine, no need for old gameport controllers.

"Back in the day" (way back in the day) I was a computer gamer; from the ZX Spectrum through C64 to Amiga. After that (mid 90s onwards) it's been consoles for me. It's only these past few years have I used m PC to catch up on some old PC classics I missed from yesteryear. I remember reading about the Gravis, but it was fascinating to discover that PCs have used analogue control schemes for such a long time.

Very informative posts timppu, thankyou :)

Hey guys, does anyone from Europe wanna buy my Thrustmaster T.16000M (green) as recommended in the OP? I bought it about 6 months ago, it hasn't seen that much use, just some Elite: Dangerous (I didn't get into it deep yet, if ever), some light dabbling in other older flight/space sims and quite a bit of MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries in the last couple of months.

It's in perfect working condition, as good as new really, I have the box still to ship it with too.

I'm only selling it because someone here is giving me a deal on a full HOTAS (the new Thrustmaster FCS which has essentially the same joystick with minor cosmetic alterations so it's not like I'm selling it because it's not good enough, I adore it, but he's not willing to sell me his throttle alone) so an extra joystick is redundant for me. I'm willing to offer it for around half its current European retail price + shipping fees which I imagine would be around 30 euros total depending on the destination, or whatever you guys think sounds fair instead.

If anyone can direct me to a better place for potential buyers and maybe provide some directions on the safest/best way to deal with such a transaction for both parties please do, I've not sold other things online and I don't wanna get screwed over by sending the item and the buyer somehow taking his money after the fact like I hear people doing by exploiting paypal or whatever.

Thanks in advance.