Posted March 24, 2017
igrok
good old gamer
igrok Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Russian Federation
Themken
Old user
Themken Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2011
From Other
Posted March 24, 2017
I have run into problems modding DOSBox games from GOG so certainly see the problem here.
timppu
Favorite race: Formula__One
timppu Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Finland
Posted March 24, 2017
F4LL0UT: In some cases (like Wing Commander 1 and 2) the setup files were removed, making it hard or impossible to change certain settings like the sound device used by the game. That's unforgivable.
Smannesman: If you go back many years you might even find me mentioning the same thing about the Sierra games. They don't care.
For instance the recent Willy Beamish release (a Dynamix/Sierra game) has an option to run the sound setup right in the menu, and I recall some other pretty recent GOG DOSBox releases having even a link to the sound setup right in the Start menu.
So it appears GOG has listened to its customers. It would be nice to have them back also for older GOG releases, but I guess I can manage as long as I can change them some other way:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/music_and_sound_effects/post2
Post edited March 24, 2017 by timppu
Smannesman
4-bit classic
Smannesman Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2010
From Netherlands
Posted March 24, 2017
timppu: Maybe they don't retroactively add the missing setup/install/setsound to those games which miss them (like Ultima Underworld 1-2, Wing Commander games etc.), but it seems newer classic releases have them.
For instance the recent Willy Beamish release (a Dynamix/Sierra game) has an option to run the sound setup right in the menu, and I recall some other pretty recent GOG DOSBox releases having even a link to the sound setup right in the Start menu.
So it appears GOG has listened to its customers. It would be nice to have them back also for older GOG releases, but I guess I can manage as long as I can change them some other way:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/music_and_sound_effects/post2
That's one way to look at it, personally I think they just don't care and have no guidelines in the office as to how a game should be delivered.For instance the recent Willy Beamish release (a Dynamix/Sierra game) has an option to run the sound setup right in the menu, and I recall some other pretty recent GOG DOSBox releases having even a link to the sound setup right in the Start menu.
So it appears GOG has listened to its customers. It would be nice to have them back also for older GOG releases, but I guess I can manage as long as I can change them some other way:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/music_and_sound_effects/post2
Rixasha
Mangeon Duster
Rixasha Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2012
From Finland
Posted March 24, 2017
I always find it a nice extra if the full cd image is included, but that's secondary as long as the setup tools are included and the cd audio tracks are not lossy compressed. Sadly even this is not always the case.. Didn't they also use to provide cd audio for one or two of the Alone In The Dark games in a lossless format but then downgrade it to mp3 later? Unacceptable.
As for running the games in Linux; as already stated you don't need to re-install them, just edit the dosbox configuration a little bit and it's good to go.
As for running the games in Linux; as already stated you don't need to re-install them, just edit the dosbox configuration a little bit and it's good to go.
phaolo
Durik - Half-Orc
phaolo Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2013
From Italy
Posted March 24, 2017
F4LL0UT: [..] Including the full ISOs would blow up many games to more than 700 Megabytes. [..] You may not care about it but I certainly do [..] have limited traffic [..]
Well, GOG in theory could just add a <100 Mb repacked bonus version for people who cannot download 700Mb. Also, they could use .flac instead of the crappy .mp3
And I'm totally against the removal of the original setups and installation data too.
timppu
Favorite race: Formula__One
timppu Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Finland
Posted March 24, 2017
To me it seems they care, as their newer DOSBox releases seem to include e.g. the sound setup utilities. Maybe their guidelines have changed or become more detailed then.
tfishell
Remorse: The List, if you like FPS psych horror
tfishell Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2010
From United States
Posted March 24, 2017
It depends on the publisher, is my understanding. For instance, as Grargar has pointed out before, Activision games are all Windows-only titles, despite an abundance of DOS games from them. Did you ever let a bluetext know this like Judas or sent a message to Support (gave them a list of games that you own with this problem)? Worth a shot.
Post edited March 24, 2017 by tfishell
F4LL0UT
Get Showgunners!
F4LL0UT Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Poland
Posted March 24, 2017
loki1985: The CD audio in this game is not compressed, just a plain image file containing the uncompressed audio.
And the 19 MB are hypothetical, because the redundancy in the files would get compressed probably even more by the installer.
Fair enough, Screamer is a peculiar example then, as far as I can tell. GOG appear to use compressed audio in all their newer releases, I actually learned about cue files and how to use them with DOSBox from GOG titles. I guess they hadn't started doing that yet, when Screamer was released, but already had the (in my opinion commendable) philosophy of getting rid of redundant data. And the 19 MB are hypothetical, because the redundancy in the files would get compressed probably even more by the installer.
Admittedly I did not and never really thought of doing so because the reason anyone would need Wing Commander's setup files is MT32 support which, let's be honest, at least 99% of all users would achieve illegally by downloading the necessary ROMs somewhere (and the same kind of user shouldn't have any problems or qualms getting the corresponding configuration or setup files either).
Post edited March 24, 2017 by F4LL0UT
loki1985
moar old games!
loki1985 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2014
From Germany
Posted March 24, 2017
Smannesman: Can't you just copy the entire DOSBox installation instead of just the bin/cue?
Seems like that would be easier.
true, while a bit annoying, this would work. Seems like that would be easier.
however, i feel a non-modified ISO (at least in this case, where the space savings are minimal) is very much preferred by me. an unmodified ISO would have more advantages, you could actually burn it and run it on an old machine, you could easily run it in emulators other than DOSBox, and all in all would be a bit more future-proof. thinking as the game copy as a digital archive, i really want things to be as original as possible.
F4LL0UT
Get Showgunners!
F4LL0UT Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Poland
Posted March 28, 2017
phaolo: Well, GOG in theory could just add a <100 Mb repacked bonus version for people who cannot download 700Mb.
Or they could just provide the CD image as bonus content for the tiny fraction of users who for some reason want the unaltered CD. My response to this is pretty much the same as with the "butchered ISOs" this thread is about. You don't need a 1:1 copy of the original data for a faithful user experience and in practice even a 128 kbit mp3 will do its job in a game perfectly fine, during gameplay nobody will ever notice that some of the most high frequency noises are slightly cut off, people who think otherwise are deluding themselves. Including lossless copies of the original data is more of a matter of principle than anything else. It's only rather peculiar purposes where people would really need the files to be lossless (like for editing or archiving purposes).
That it's really only a matter of principle is further confirmed by the fact that you don't usually see people raging when the original release of a game used relatively low quality file formats for the music or other sounds (and especially if the technical specifications of the files were obscured). Or that people are almost universally perfectly satisfied with 44khz 16 bit audio even though these specs were arbitrarily chosen at a specific point in history for a pretty silly reason and are not some magical point of perfection.
phaolo
Durik - Half-Orc
phaolo Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2013
From Italy
Posted March 28, 2017
phaolo: Well, GOG in theory could just add a <100 Mb repacked bonus version for people who cannot download 700Mb.
F4LL0UT: Or they could just provide the CD image as bonus content for the tiny fraction of users who for some reason want the unaltered CD. Then they'll be able to check the stats themselves to understand what the majority really wants.
F4LL0UT: You don't need a 1:1 copy of the original data for a faithful user experience and in practice even a 128 kbit mp3 will do its job in a game perfectly fine
FLAC compresses at ~40-50% MP3 compresses at ~90-95%
128 kbps Mp3 music is usually noticeable vs a well recorded uncompressed track (if you have a good sound system).
With ~50% difference, you'd be able to get the 100% original.
Let's not only offer worsened versions for everyone in 2017..
It's like with those folks who still settle for DVDs.. let's not stop offering BDs just because they don't need\can't afford better resolutions.
F4LL0UT: 44khz 16 bit audio even though these specs were arbitrarily chosen at a specific point in history for a pretty silly reason and are not some magical point of perfection.
You can check some reasons on Wikipedia. O_o Obviously none can be considered absolutely perfect, but they're not exactly random either.
Post edited March 28, 2017 by phaolo
F4LL0UT
Get Showgunners!
F4LL0UT Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Poland
Posted March 29, 2017
phaolo: FLAC compresses at ~40-50%
MP3 compresses at ~90-95%
With ~50% difference, you'd be able to get the 100% original.
The "50%" don't make any sense. Let's be generous and compare 50% FLAC versus 90% MP3. That makes FLAC 500% the size of the MP3 version. Now let's say 40% FLAC versus 95% MP3. That makes FLAC 1200% the size of MP3. That's pretty darn relevant, especially in the context of old games where the audio music comprises the vast majority of the data. MP3 compresses at ~90-95%
With ~50% difference, you'd be able to get the 100% original.
phaolo: 128 kbps Mp3 music is usually noticeable vs a well recorded uncompressed track (if you have a good sound system).
You don't even need particularly good hardware to notice the quality difference between 128 kbit mp3 and a FLAC file, it's just that there's almost no chance that the quality difference will be relevant to the gameplay experience. Just to be safe I would personally settle for 192 kbit, though, due to the risk of highly noticeable artifacts in high-pitched noises at 128 kbit. Soundtracks offered as bonus content are an entirely different matter and I would get legitimately mad if those were offered as puny 128 kbit mp3s. I still wouldn't go as far as requesting FLAC's, though.
phaolo: Let's not only offer worsened versions for everyone in 2017..
It's like with those folks who still settle for DVDs.. let's not stop offering BDs just because they don't need\can't afford better resolutions.
I never said GOG should only offer downscaled versions, I just said that the standard release should shed redundant data and use compression of CD audio tracks to reduce download and installation size. However, I DO want GOG to include lossless CD images as bonus content. It's like with those folks who still settle for DVDs.. let's not stop offering BDs just because they don't need\can't afford better resolutions.
phaolo: You can check some reasons on Wikipedia. O_o
Obviously none can be considered absolutely perfect, but they're not exactly random either.
You surely know that the standard was established by Sony in the context of the development of the CD. The audio quality was imposed by desired playtime (at least to some degree influenced by Norio Ohga's personal preference), physical size (which in turn was imposed by certain economic factors and compatibility with existing hardware), density / reliability (desired by the engineers) and of course the coding technology available at the time which was developed and changed until the very last moment the CD was officially introduced (quite a random factor, wouldn't you say?). All in all it can be summed up as one big clusterfuck that eventually had to result in a finished product. Obviously none can be considered absolutely perfect, but they're not exactly random either.
Now, there was of course a scientifically founded minimal quality that had to be achieved but that minimal quality still made certain assumptions about the hearing range of the average human (20hz to 20khz). Assumptions similar in nature to the ones made during the development of the mp3.
Post edited March 29, 2017 by F4LL0UT