I would add one more thing:

If you use the fact that black people are more likely to commit crimes in order to take preemptive action (for example, pulling over a driver because she's black, charging more for insurance, or focusing on black people when doing sting operations), then that is racist.

I could also point out another important factor: Black people are more likely to be the victims of crime than white people.

(Of course, this information is US-centric; the figures might differ in black-majority countries.)

C'mon, this thread was never about discussing Yooka-Laylee in the first place. It was always a political thread, that Yooka-Laylee happened to be tangentially attached. You could've swapped it with any other game and the underlining discussion would have been the same.

If you want to talk about Yooka-Laylee specifically: I hope it's great. I never played the Banjo games. I had a PS1 so I was more of Spyro man myself, but that type of 3D platformer does bring me some general nostalgia, even if I never played the Banjo games specifically. I've heard some negative opinions on it, that it's a bit barren, or that it just makes you wish you were playing Banjo instead. I'll have to wait for reviews to come in before I make a decision. I could see myself buying it at launch, however it will be released just a week after Persona 5, so I'll probably be way too busy to get around to Yooka-Laylee. And if I wait a month till I have the time to buy and play it, then I might as well wait for a sale.

As for the Youtube involved: I'm still subscribed to him. I do think he has said many things that definitely cross into "not okay, dude". On the other hand, I used to watch him all the time in Game Grumps, and if there's one thing those let's plays have thought me is that JonTron is a massive idiot, and I try to never attribute to malice what can be equally explained by stupidity. Maybe he didn't mean to be racist and just doesn't know any better? I don't know, I'm conflicted. I guess this is another thing I'll have to wait and see what my gut reaction is when he comes out with a new video.

It's far more serious than that.

When he said "Wealthy blacks also commit more crime than poor whites. That’s a fact. Look it up.” I can probably tell you where he got that from.

There was a study about the rates of incarceration between different ethnicities and levels of wealth in the US, that determined that a black person is more likely to be incarcerated than a white person that commited the same crime, even if the black person happened to be wealthier than the white person.

The study was then misconstrued by some people to say that black people commit more crimes than white people, to imply that socioeconomical factors actually don't play a part in the matter and that black people just have a propensity for criminal behaviour. That's just not a conclusion of the study, neither was that something they were testing for either way. That was deliberate, and that was racist.

Like I said to CharlesGray I won't fault JonTron for merely being ignorant of something and taking a misleading article he read at face value, however he then made "non-pology" apology video. The usual "I'm sorry you were offended" type of stuff. In it he said basically the same thing you just did "People get up in arms when you quote an unconfortable statistic". But never does he acknowledge the things he said that were flat out wrong, or the statistics that were wrong, like the one regarding the statement I quoted, and trust me the whole internet told him about it.

At what point does a person cross the line from "He just didn't know any better" to "He is being racist and he just doesn't care"?

Heavily influenced by the Clintons no doubt, with their minimum sentencing for blacks as Hillary called them 'super predators'. Then there was the classification of powder vs injection cocaine. Reminds me, Clintons were involved in drug running.

While the black population does do more crimes, a part of that is their family structure got shafted hard. Never having father figures and inner cities where they get stuck and can't progress. If they weren't so poor and had a proper family structure they'd be probably about the average crime rate.

Stefan does a good video involving genetics and crime, where some races are just more likely to do crime. A big part of it is IQ, where when you have the average IQ of a society dip under 90, then a democracy and proper government goes away. And criminals are in the 85 IQ hotspot where they are smart enough to plan and do crimes, but not smart enough to think longer term.

Haven't seen the video so I can't judge. But if you say it was bad I'll assume it's so.

I'd have to look more at his character and how he acts. It's a case by case basis. I can't define when the line is crossed and the severity, nor will I try.

How about we don't condemn someone we don't personally know based on a few things they said when they were frustrated? You see, this is the problem, some people don't just disagree with Jontron... they are looking to smear him as if he was advocating the extermination of an entire race.

Destiny could be seen as a pedophile due to the things he said, why aren't they making a big deal about that? Why isn't Destiny's career being put in jeapordy because of the few stupid things he said? Why are they siding with pedophiles?

^ Do you see why this kind of reaction/conversation is toxic? Instead of talking about the issues, here we are talking about and demonizing human beings. We are punishing people based on a disagreement, based on terrible choices of words, semantics. It's time we evolve past the witch hunting and public shaming.

As Eleanor Roosevelt said, "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Edit: rewording

Kid is talking about the Clintons like they were drug running murderers, and is attempting to shoe horn mean average IQ to mean things it doesn't. (Ignoring that 100 isn't some static value that has existed unchanging; mean average of society is by definition 100)

What I said applies to everyone.

And i wonder why people have to spam a gaming forum with political shit threads .

Dafuq? Why is everything so political these days? Are we in some civil war?
Let people have their shitty opinions ffs, everyone is misguided in random areas, it's about how you deal with it.
Nobody seems to lose a job for racism that is aimed in another direction or even saying killallwhitemen while having an official post in a university although the latter is incitement to mass murder and actually illegal.

I'm tired off all this political nonsense infecting my hobby.

JonTron talks with Destiny about politics and about immigration vs illegal immigration and economics

Playtonic removes JonTron over political views

Thread about JonTron getting removed because of political views, somehow is political..


Gee i wonder how that happened...

There's a lot to cover and explain, which I won't get into in depth right now due to not wanting to derail the topic further.

Looks like the devs trying to get free lipservice by being controversial and PC. I don't know what he said, but I doubt any serious devs would take mere association with him as upsetting to their playerbase. The double standard of course is also there, and I doubt anyone would face similar treatment for saying the same about other races / communities.

Seems like another case of virtuous over-sensitivity.

"The opinion that art should have nothing to do with politics is itself a political attitude"

(George Orwell)


https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/841884691452043267

The video shows the exact level of discussion we have right now. "How can we say he's racist and even hold him accountable just because he said a heap of racist shit on his stream repeatedly and defended those views for two hours like a raging madman?". Why, of course we can.

You forgot to mention that he is also a nazi and said the holocaust never happened but should have.

Efficient use of resources means targeting crime prevention efforts at the areas where crime is more likely to occur.

Pulling over a black driver because she's black: not legit. Pull someone over if they have done something wrong (ex. run a red light) or are showing actual signs of problems (ex. weaving erratically).

Charging more for insurance: This is all about identifying where the payouts are more likely to occur (or larger). Young drivers routinely have higher premiums. This is not ageism since stats tend to show that young drivers are more likely to incur costs. Are there insurance pools based on ethnicity?

Focusing on black people during stings: Stings should absolutely be targeted at where the crimes are. IF the criminal group is primarily black, then so be it. If the sting is targeted at someone/group simply because they are black, that isn't as legit (you already seem to acknowledge stats saying blacks are more likly to commit crimes). If the people caught by a sting happen to primarily be black, then so be it.

Black people are more likely to be victims of crime: I don't see how this is relevant. Also, seems like they are more likely to be victims for similar reasons to why they are more likely to be perpetrators.

And you forgot that those people who love to hate might actually take this statement serious.
You should put a tag on it, else it's involuntary misrepresentation.