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Randalator: You say it's one license, I say it's two. It's even two technically different products, one of which I didn't want to begin with.
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Fenixp: HIB claims it's one license and you have absolutely no say in the matter. You have agreed to TOS. You are breaking it. This is damaging HIB. Congratulations, you are now exploiting the best distribution service out there!
Do you want to know how many Humble Bundles I have bought? 2
Do you want to know which ones? HIB 5 and the current WB
Do you want to know which one I didn't get Steam keys for? HIB 5
Do you want to know which one allows Steam key gifting? WB

So tell me again how exactly I'm damaging HIB if I never gave away a single fucking Humble Bundle Steam key.
Post edited November 07, 2013 by Randalator
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Fenixp: HIB claims it's one license and you have absolutely no say in the matter. You have agreed to TOS. You are breaking it. This is damaging HIB. Congratulations, you are now exploiting the best distribution service out there!
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Randalator: Do you want to know how many Humble Bundles I have bought? 2
Do you want to know which ones? HIB 5 and the current WB
Do you want to know which one had no Steam keys? HIB 5
Do you want to know which one allows Steam key gifting? WB

So tell me again how exactly I'm damaging HIB if I never gave away a single fucking Humble Bundle Steam key.
still does not change that fact that when you buy 1 game, you buy 1 license. They may give you a choice on how you want to play your 1 license, it is still only 1 license. If it was not Humble, then it was someone else you exploited.
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Randalator: Do you want to know how many Humble Bundles I have bought? 2
Do you want to know which ones? HIB 5 and the current WB
Do you want to know which one I didn't get Steam keys for? HIB 5
Do you want to know which one allows Steam key gifting? WB

So tell me again how exactly I'm damaging HIB if I never gave away a single fucking Humble Bundle Steam key.
Well then, the second part of your post doesn't apply to you, personally. It still applies to anyone who does. Still, I'm sorry I have made it seem as if the post has been directed at you, personally, it was short a couple of 'if's
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amok: still does not change that fact that when you buy 1 game, you buy 1 license. They may give you a choice on how you want to play your 1 license, it is still only 1 license. If it was not Humble, then it was someone else you exploited.
No other Bundle I bought actually forbids gifting of Steam keys, so stop trying to accuse me of something I never did, would you kindly. And there's still the problem that just because something's written in the TOS it's not necessarily legal in your country.
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Fenixp: Well then, the second part of your post doesn't apply to you, personally. It still applies to anyone who does. Still, I'm sorry I have made it seem as if the post has been directed at you, personally, it was short a couple of 'if's
Apology accepted. Here, have some puppies.
Post edited November 07, 2013 by Randalator
Like many other users here I have no hate for steam, in fact the service is fantastic for multiplayer and community based services. They have decent sales and are slowly incorporating better user friendly options (custom install directories, offline mode etc.). If you treat all digital downloads on steam as rentals your whole perespective of the service also changes and it becomes much more appealing. It also encourages waiting for a good sale rather than paying the premium prices.

For a game i want to own, GOG lets me get all those old gems without faffing about getting them running in windows. For newer games I always buy retail complete/GOTY editions that include all the DLC and whatever other cool bonus stuff they can fit in the box. There are three reasons for this:
1. because the entire expanded game comes in one package with all of the bugs patched out (in theory).
2. I am a design nerd and the packaging is as much a part of the experience for me (shame on you batman games).
3. I own the game disc for as long as i want, if or when i choose to give it to someone or sell it, i am completely free to do so. (needless to say i do not pass on digital games).

Until steam allows for the deactivation of retail keys when you uninstall a game, i won't be activating any of my discs on the service. This is an even more relevant situation now that the dead horse that was GFWL has finally stopped being flogged. This is a shame really as i like the silly bonuses you can get now (achievements, cards etc.)

I know i'm not the target demographic and probably considered a dinosaur by most but this is the only reason i don't use steam for my games. Heck for all i know they have allowed you to do that for ages and i just missed the blog post.

sorry for the wall of text.
Post edited November 07, 2013 by Ominousrobot
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LeonardoCornejo: The thing is that the DRM free one goes with a moral challenge, for example in my case I made clear that no one else was allowed to use the account unless he or she contributed to the buying of games, and also I made clear that we shall not abuse of the DRM free stuff. But some persons would abuse of cuorse, not everyone is as lawful-neutral as us.
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Fenixp: See, thing is that GOG actually allows installations per household, so you're not really breaking the TOS as far as I understand it - and even if you did, you're damaging noone as GOG charges enough to cover the costs regardless. HIB has made it clear that the behavior of duplicating licences is actually damaging to them, thus trying to do their best to prevent it now
Agree, most DRM supporters like Steam allow up to 3 instalations (as far as i know) in separate registered computers, upon such premise, installing games in 2 computer with as DRM free is morally right, provided the source company does not complain, i which case I would cease that out of respect.

DRM is not necesary, but some DRM systems are fair enough to be tolerated, that is why Steam is still liked and that is why I don't think a boycott is necesary, if you are anti DRM like me, not buying the games with DRM is just fine, anything else is exagerated. However there are some horrid DRM schemes like those that require persistent internet conection.

There is a different betwen using and abusing, but some persons do not realize that. It is like before the though DRM began, you could install the same game in an unknown number of computers by using the retail legitimat copy of the disk, you needed the disk to run the games but that meant that whenever one computer was not using the disk, any of the other computers could use it. Two persosn could easily use it like that and nodody was realy harmed at all.

Still there is a moral question but it has no longer anything to do with the DRM.
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amok: ...And from the rest of the post, I see that you agree with me, if I did not misunderstand.
Yes I agree. Maybe I am wrong. It's just that I think the real evil guys are out there without posting here or anywhere, so we can as well be nice when pointing out the mistakes of others. Everything is fine. :)
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amok: still does not change that fact that when you buy 1 game, you buy 1 license. They may give you a choice on how you want to play your 1 license, it is still only 1 license. If it was not Humble, then it was someone else you exploited.
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Randalator: No other Bundle I bought actually forbids gifting of Steam keys, so stop trying to accuse me of something I never did, would you kindly. And there's still the problem that just because something's written in the TOS it's not necessarily legal in your country.
I think you should read my post again.... you did not answer it. Hint - it has nothing to do with any ToS.
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LeonardoCornejo: Agree, most DRM supporters like Steam allow up to 3 instalations (as far as i know) in separate registered computers, upon such premise, installing games in 2 computer with as DRM free is morally right, provided the source company does not complain, i which case I would cease that out of respect.
Actually, Steam allows you to install on as many computers as you wish - it's even implementing a system which will allow you to share your account between multiple people (... that you trust, it's quite easy to turn it against you by others). The only requirement is that you only have Steam launched at a single computer at any given time, and even that can be very easily circumvented by having Steam launched in offline mode (I have Steam on my desktop in online and on my notebook in offline mode - played a couple of MP games with my wife that way. MP will work provided it does't use Steam itself for connections, for obvious reasons)

As for the rest of your post... Yeah, don't really have anything to add.
Post edited November 07, 2013 by Fenixp
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JCD-Bionicman: I boycott steam mainly because the DRM benefits no one. It doesn't prevent piracy, and so it just makes the DRM even more annoying.

I just wanted to post this as a sort of poll to see how many people actually go as far as boycotting Steam games. It'd have to be a damn good game for me to consider buying a Steam exclusive.
I boycott Steam too.
As long as it remains a DRM-system itself, I'm not going to buy anything from its store.
I don't even want my PC to be infected by its client.

I don't care how good a steam exclusive game would be or even if it could be free.
There are many good DRM-free games to have fun and support their developers, who respect us as users.

No exceptions. Period.
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LeonardoCornejo: Agree, most DRM supporters like Steam allow up to 3 instalations (as far as i know) in separate registered computers, upon such premise, installing games in 2 computer with as DRM free is morally right, provided the source company does not complain, i which case I would cease that out of respect.
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Fenixp: Actually, Steam allows you to install on as many computers as you wish - it's even implementing a system which will allow you to share your account between multiple people (... that you trust, it's quite easy to turn it against you by others). The only requirement is that you only have Steam launched at a single computer at any given time, and even that can be very easily circumvented by having Steam launched in offline mode (I have Steam on my desktop in online and on my notebook in offline mode - played a couple of MP games with my wife that way. MP will work provided it does't use Steam itself for connections, for obvious reasons)

As for the rest of your post... Yeah, don't really have anything to add.
Steam is not that bad for a boycott, not good enough for me yet, but not that bad, sometimes they behave like jerks but hey Valve was created by gamers, so I think that among the guys that use DRM steam is one of the most user friendly (still sometimes jerks) they are the true neutral of the videogame sales industry, I bet GOG would be the Neutral-good ones and CD Projekt the Lawful-good ;)
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JCD-Bionicman: I boycott steam mainly because the DRM benefits no one. It doesn't prevent piracy, and so it just makes the DRM even more annoying.

I just wanted to post this as a sort of poll to see how many people actually go as far as boycotting Steam games. It'd have to be a damn good game for me to consider buying a Steam exclusive.
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vanchann: I boycott Steam too.
As long as it remains a DRM-system itself, I'm not going to buy anything from its store.
I don't even want my PC to be infected by its client.

I don't care how good a steam exclusive game would be or even if it could be free.
There are many good DRM-free games to have fun and support their developers, who respect us as users.

No exceptions. Period.
It is not a boycott just for abstaining from buying and also, its client is not maware, you can not get "infected" by it.
I know Steam is still not the good guys but hey you treat them as if they were an evil organization or something (at least you treat them as if they were EA) sometimes they act like complete jerks, sometimes they are nice. They are neutral.
Post edited November 07, 2013 by LeonardoCornejo
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TwoHandedSword: Does it still count as a boycott if I just never signed up? Even to redeem a free code?
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Trilarion: Now that is most probably just indifference or laziness. If you would like to play games from Steam but don't want to sign up, then this would be a boycott.
It's neither laziness nor indifference. I decided I just didn't want to support a site that supports DRM.

But since I've never even signed up, Steam doesn't even know I exist. So my question once again is, does this still count as a boycott even if it's all in my own mind?
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Trilarion: Now that is most probably just indifference or laziness. If you would like to play games from Steam but don't want to sign up, then this would be a boycott.
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TwoHandedSword: It's neither laziness nor indifference. I decided I just didn't want to support a site that supports DRM.

But since I've never even signed up, Steam doesn't even know I exist. So my question once again is, does this still count as a boycott even if it's all in my own mind?
It does not seem so, unless you request or encourage others to do the same.
I guess I do. I can't seem to pull the trigger on downloading the client....
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Trilarion: Now that is most probably just indifference or laziness. If you would like to play games from Steam but don't want to sign up, then this would be a boycott.
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TwoHandedSword: It's neither laziness nor indifference. I decided I just didn't want to support a site that supports DRM.

But since I've never even signed up, Steam doesn't even know I exist. So my question once again is, does this still count as a boycott even if it's all in my own mind?
Yes it does:

"A boycott is an act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for social or political reasons."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott

The other part do not need to know that you are not using them, but it needs to be a voluntary decision to so from your part. So if you know about Steam, but chooses not to use it for whatever reason in protest, then it is a boycott.