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dtgreene: I see this as giving wrong results in a lot of cases, particularly when it comes to minorities that aren't as well represented in the training set.

Remember, there was a time when Amazon (IIRC) tried using AI to filter applications. It turns out that it ended up favoring applicants with a specific name, simply because Amazon happened to have hired more people with that name.

AI does not remove biases; it amplifies them.

I am of the opinion that AI should not be used to make decisions where the decision actually matters. AI might be useful to assist people in making decisions, but it should not be used to actually make the final decision.
This is factual.
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CthuluIsSpy: There's a possibility that PEGI might adopt the same policy if it takes off in the US though.
So if it does get approved it might come over here. It would be better for everyone if it fails.
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Hikage_XjS: Obviously i want it to fail. That should go without saying.

But even if PEGI does a "monkey see, monkey do" (doubtful), this kind of thing would never get past our privacy laws.
GDPR first and foremost.
There is no need for PEGI to make proposals to the EU and GDPR or privacy laws will not prevent a similar parental verficiation system from being adopted and implemented by the EU. [url=https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2023/739350/EPRS_ATA(2023)739350_EN.pdf]Age Verification for Children[/url]

Yoti, which is also mentioned in idbehholdME' linked article, is also a listed member of euCONSENT

This is the follow-up project of euCONSENT: eIDAS & Face Verification for Cross-Border Digital Identify

Finally there is the EUDWi (EU digital wallet initiative) EUDWi prominently featuring facial recognition and other biometrics to verify a persons age and identify online.

Like it, hate it, this is going to be part of our horrible future under the guise of 'easy verification and access to services etc.', or to 'protect children from harmful content'. China, India and you see how this works out, when the wrong person or party is at the helm of a country. One click and your whole existence can be ruined and total control can be wielded by governments with a proverbial push of a button. There is no guarantee that this technology will not be used in the same way within the EU.
Post edited July 26, 2023 by Mori_Yuki
I don’t see how this holds up in court due to privacy concerns and children 13 and under. But, we are already headed towards this type of dystopian nightmare. Just the other day, I tried to apply for credit. And the application told me to call back.

Called them back and they wanted me to take a picture of my face and ID for security reasons. I gave them a big fat nope and hung up.

Companies have all sorts of data leaks all the time. No way I’m going to hand that much information over to someone who won’t safeguard it.
Post edited July 26, 2023 by Pat Headroom
I'd sooner share porn with children than accept this orwellian shit. Nothing too kinky, because I really mean it.
Suppose this would somehow go through; would the next step be DRM that checks the one playing the game actually is the one whose game (license) it is. I know it is getting close to this on mobile for all those that do not block that BS.
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Themken: Suppose this would somehow go through; would the next step be DRM that checks the one playing the game actually is the one whose game (license) it is. I know it is getting close to this on mobile for all those that do not block that BS.
Most likely, yeah

And the next step after that will be limiting your access to your games in order to boost your productivity. Then they will decide at what times you can play, and so on. Same with everything else, including eating habits.

As I said in previous post, my tinfoil sense is tingling for quite some time now. I'm beginning to understand those weird hermits living in their tiny shacks, distrustful of everything around them.
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Hikage_XjS: Last time i checked the ESRB had no power in the EU. Our rating board is PEGI.
Even if they did, this crap breaks all sorts of privacy laws here.

I feel sorry for US citizens if this gets approved, i really do.
I don't think it will come to that. That would be a serious invasion of private rights. And of course there's the problem that not everyone has a webcam or similar device.

And of course the EU has it's own regulations and some countries (*cough* Germany *cough*) have even more special needs. The age verification that we have here on GOG is not sufficient to allow adult content, so these games are blocked in Germany.

"Images are immediately, permanently deleted, and not used by Yoti for training purposes."
https://media.tenor.com/D6OTJ5ad2_YAAAAC/wink-wink-agnes.gif
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dtgreene: I see this as giving wrong results in a lot of cases, particularly when it comes to minorities that aren't as well represented in the training set. (...)
AI does not remove biases; it amplifies them.
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g2222: ^^ This.

See attached classic example.
(I don't know if it is real or fabricated, but it's definitely plausible.)
Reminds me of a story I heard about a game being demoed at a conference. The game in question used cameras to track the person's face (or some part of the person's body, I think the face). Someone with dark skin volunteered to try it, but the game was not able to handle darker skin, and therefore it failed.

That's the one time where I could consider a game's actual gameplay to be racist.

(I could, on the other hand, see the problem being fixed, either before release, or in an update, after some players have encountered it. On the other hand, many games do get abandoned by their developers with unfixed issues.)
Heh, that was indeed a problem of the old camera tracking algorithms. Webcams that would replace the face with an avatar had the same problem.

An excellent controller for motion control is the Ultraleap / LeapMotion. It's designed to track hands and finder movements.
Sadly when it came out there was just no use for it other than as a replacement for touch screens. The games and other software that were made to promote it were just not good (a rail shooter where you aim and shoot with your fingers for example).
Wher I saw a chance was touch screens on info panels in malls where you would not have to touch the screen anymore (let's NOT talk about Covid at this point).
But by now they have partnered up with VR manufacturers, seems they got a hold on the market finally.
It's a dumb unenforceable idea. I sit a kid down at a Commodore 64, I have completely defied the ESRB; there are no games for which a rating ever existed on the platform.

I sit the kid down in front of an IBM PS/2 and give them a copy of Wolfenstein 3D, well now they're shooting nazis without asking the ESRB if they can.

I hand the kid over a Playstation Vita which has been hacked and is a dead platform anyway, and I could tell them to go fight the Wall of Flesh while I make them a tuna sandwich. Again, no enforcement in spite of an ESRB rating. (I should note that Terraria is rated T for teen, but is unrated (or at least, unlisted) on PC.

In short, there's over 50 years of systems you could sit a child in front of and have this entire system be irrelevant to. And millions of independently developed games that never deigned to sit themselves before the Omniscient Council of Vagueness.

This is without even mentioning the proven record of how bad the ESA are at keeping data private.
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Themken: Suppose this would somehow go through; would the next step be DRM that checks the one playing the game actually is the one whose game (license) it is. I know it is getting close to this on mobile for all those that do not block that BS.
If it does, there would be normies who would try to say it’s fine because they have nothing to hide.
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Darvond: I sit the kid down in front of an IBM PS/2 and give them a copy of Wolfenstein 3D, well now they're shooting nazis without asking the ESRB if they can.
Speaking of having to ask for permission to shoot Nazis, there's this little game, which is Wolfenstein 3D except for one thing.
https://nasser.itch.io/dialogue-3-d
Unpopular opinion: all of this AI push we are seeing is, on the whole, going to be for the worse. The same way smartphones already were. Yes, we can all find potential utopian uses of them, yes many people's functioning is improved from them, but the neverending dystopian slide sure is a steep price to pay.
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rjbuffchix: Unpopular opinion: all of this AI push we are seeing is, on the whole, going to be for the worse. The same way smartphones already were. Yes, we can all find potential utopian uses of them, yes many people's functioning is improved from them, but the neverending dystopian slide sure is a steep price to pay.
Bro, are you me? I’m not excited at all about AI. It’s going to ruin a lot of lives with deepfakes and scams.

Ugh the future looks bleak with tech.
Post edited July 27, 2023 by Pat Headroom