That plus backline area stun/blight. Incision is decent and gives a bleed option. Disorienting blast adds shuffle and corpse clear. Overall really versatile, so far I havn't encountered a situation where I actually regretted putting a Plague Doctor in the party. Even in Warrens/Weald/Courtyard she's still fine due to Incision, which just shouldn't happen.

In dancing terms Vestal is the anti-HWM. She's not a dancer herself, but can work very nicely in dancing parties. As you know there's basically two vestal setups, backline and rank 2. The CC trinket set adds bonuses to both and a dancing party is the way to capitalize. Vestal herself never dances, but you can play e.g. a Shieldbreaker in a way that manipulates Vestal position between 2 and 3, depending on what you need out of your Vestal skillset atm. Now arguably this is unnecessary, since you'd usually just put her in the backline or rank 2, give her profane/sacred scroll, and she'd be perfectly fine - probably even more effective for less work. The pseudo-dancing Vestal ist just a fun option to play her.
Antiquarian less so, but there is Get Down and afair many of her skills work from a multitude of ranks. I've not found a way so far to really utilize her in a dancing setup, but I think it should be possible. Since you like Highwayman you can also pair her up with him, both in the frontline. I wouldn't call that a dancing party, but it's an option.

I have to disagree here. Grave Robber adds blights, buffs, debuffs and stuns. None of which are particularly good, but it's some versatility. Shadowfade also offers backwards movement and gives her some dancing flexibility. Highwayman has damage and that's it. And even that only as a lone dancer. And not to ranks 3&4. In fact, Highwayman has nothing to hit the backline without damage penalties, unless you run a marking party or force him to guard with an Antiquarian to utilize his Riposte more. If you want to attack the backline, Graverobber is a lot more potent.
I like both, but for very different party setups.

Yeah, but what's the problem?
Abomination can deal with rank 3 fine in human form and in beast form absolutely annihilates the front ranks. Ranks 3 and 4 are not that dangerous that your entire party has to deal with them asap. So you could, for example, stun the backline with a Plague Doctor, while Abomination takes out the frontline and conveyor belts 3&4 within reach, or shuffle the backline into range.
The CC trinket set also suggests shifting the Abomination from rank 2 to rank 1 with Slam to fully utilize it, so there could be a neat dancing option, though I haven't experimented with that so far.

This is a bit surprising to me, I actually thought she's plenty viable already and with several mechanics no one else can provide I'd never have called her low impact. Exceptional dancer, decent blighter, bypasses guards and protection, great AoE, pulls, destealth, block, debuffs for days ... imo there's a lot to like here.

You're not going to get any arguments from me here. He's a star in the Crimson Court, but that's about it. But then again, damage isn't his job.

I don't really get that tbh. The game isn't really difficult, it's fine if 3&4 survive the first round. Ideally you get a few surprises, too, so I don't think enemy ranks are that drastically set in stone. There's lots of ways to deal with the backline, too, and Highwayman didn't exactly shine there pre-patch, either. You have to deal with the frontline sooner or later, why not utilize the guy that hits there like a truck?

Those are cool parties, but there are many neat party compositions in the game. Shouldn't be too difficult to adapt. I'm also a bit surprised, because if you want to deal with the backline as efficiently as possible, this doesn't quite compute. Holy Lance and Iron Swan are great here, Vestal and Highwayman less so, and bringing a Leper for Intimidate ... if there's a straggler with a few leftover HP that you really need to get rid of right now, I guess it's an option. To be honest, I'm not sure how well Highwayman works in that setup. Duelist's Advance's Riposte is active for two turns, meaning you only need to use the skill every other turn. However, here you need to use it just to reset your Crusader/Man-At-Arms, and in turn you get a -20% DMG penalty and a lone Riposte in the backline without guarding, and you practically eliminate Bulwark of Faith and Retribution from your options. I guess you could just stay stationary with Highwayman on even turns, Crusader and Man-At-Arms have enough options for rank 2. But what's your Highwayman's role in that case? Rank 3 cleanup with Grapeshot Blast?

:(((


Or :))), depending on which side of the 'nerfing controversy' those Linux and Mac gamers stand. :P

I think this should explain everything, the game difficulty depends on how you play. When you play torchless runs, with moon rings, you can't afford to leave the back positions to trigger their damage/stress for more than one/two turns. Also in torchless runs you are more likely to get surprised than you are to surprise the enemy. In this case you want to deal with the back row as fast as possible. Always!

So in torchless runs you don't have time to wait for dots to tick over. And you can't risk missing a stun on the back row. It's a race to kill the back rows as fast as possible.

To be fair, I only ever use a Leper sparingly, because I need to level up one, for the Crusader+Leper combo that can kill the final boss alone(I'm avoiding saying more due to spoilers). However when I use him I give him moon ring+brawler's gloves to offset the low damage of intimidate. His already huge base damage, brings him close enough to the damage the hellion does. Also the hellion and leper get the same bonus from the Crimson Court district.

EDIT: I just checked and yes they nerfed the Highwayman to be unable to melee position 4, and they buffed the Shieldbreaker to now be able to melee positions 3&4. SO they made the Shieldbreaker a viable dancing character, by nerfing the Highwayman. Again they nerf the main game in order to accommodate DLC. Not a fan of this, Redhook.

That could be it, yeah. I'm on full light all the time, haven't seen a point to torchless so far. I should probably give that a go in the near future.

I don't think that's fair, Shieldbreaker always was a viable dancing character. Range on Pierce helps, certainly, but she always had ways to deal with any rank.
Also the more I think about it, the more this fascinates me, because, to be blunt (and don't take this as an attack or anything, I like Highwayman, too), I can't see how Highwayman wouldn't be a tad bit shit in that setup. You always have a damage penalty to the backrow and, at least on paper, something like GraveRobber-Vestal-Crusader-Hellion, where you'd open with Lunge -> Iron Swan -> Holy Lance -> Judgement, seems like it should be a more potent solution. I'm curious, how does Highwayman work in your formation? Duelist's Advance every round or do you alternate with Pistol Shot / Grapeshot Blast?

Since you are all experts here and we are talking about the shieldbreaker, is it a good idea to install and use shieldbreaker for the first playthrough or not? Does it change other stuff in the game?

EDIT : And the musketeer?

Musketeer is just a re-skin of Arbalester, doesn't seem to change anything besides skill icons and looks.

As for shieldbreaker, I'd say go ahead: I'd basicaly describe her as a dancing character with lots of moves that move her back and forth, blight, defense ignore and guard/stealth(?) breakers. If you're unsure about her you can just ignore her and not add to the roster, but she adds a new event, some new items, trinkets, and some enemies. You can just check the DLC info to know more, I'd rather keep it as spoiler-free as possible.

As I said you usually need 1/2 turns to deal with positions 3&4.
Party 1: Vestal + Highwayman + Crusader + Hellion
turn 1: Duelist Advance -> Iron Swan -> Holy Lance -> Judgement
turn 2: Duelist Advance -> Iron Swan/If it Bleeds -> Holy Lance -> Judgement
turn 3: Duelist Advance -> Iron Swan/If it Bleeds -> Holy Lance -> Judgement

Party 2: GraveRobber-Vestal-Crusader-Hellion
turn 1: Lunge -> Iron Swan -> Holy Lance -> Judgement
turn 2: Lunge -> Breakthrough -> Holy Lance -> Judgement
turn 3: Lunge -> Breakthrough -> Holy Lance -> Judgement

Anything else leaves the Graverobber in position 1. The GR's problem is that it has very low HP and high dodge. Dodge is good when it works, but when it doesn't work, is usually enough to get the GR at death's door in 2-3 hits. Even with constant dancing, the GR still spends dangerous amounts of time in positions 1 and 2 which are the positions most likely to be hit by the enemy,

You can watch this on youtube, from filtyrobot, about the
Graverobber,
and this on the
Highwayman.

tldr

Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah, I know the videos, and I think that explains why you're not too keen on the Grave Robber. She's tons of fun and if I were to make a party out of personal favourites, she's in there all day - at full light. But from what he says monsters get an accuracy boost at low light and that might be a dealbreaker with her. To a lesser degree with the Shieldbreaker, too, iirc she was comparatively squishy for a frontliner outside of Serpent Sway. If you're on Stygian, as well, you can probably disregard everything I say, anyway.
I'm still surprised by the Highwayman, especially with Duellist's Advance each turn, but if it works, awesome. I'm going to have to experiment a bit more with him, looks like I've been selling him short for a while.

I absolutely understand having a favorite. I love the Crusader and Arbalest.