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mystikmind2000: Could animals wipe out humans any other way? With just mammals and birds, even if they became super intelligent? No.

Bring the insect kingdom on board, controlled by super intelligence, infiltration of human bodies, infiltration of technology possible, now its getting far more deadly! Yea, plausible now!

Bring micro biology on board = GAME OVER
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Pheace: I think you're being extremely optimistic here. Rats, mice, cats, dogs etc, they could seriously wipe out a large part of humanity overnight and be an extreme risk for a long, long time. Especially the first two as you'd need a serious stronghold to keep those out.

Insect realm is already the instant game over step. No way we'd survive that.
behind the scene intelligence controlling animals like rodents could certainly wipe us out.

Food. Most of our food is not in the shops, cans, etc but in grain sheds, fields or are walking.

If all mammals and birds (so chickens) coordinated in trying to wipe us out I could imagine them being able to starve most of the humanity.

I still doubt that they would have won as we are clever bunch of folks. but hey. chimpanzees can drive tanks and operate miniguns so if they are actually as clever as humans. Maybe they can win?
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mystikmind2000: I just remembered another good movie with a 100% illogical story plot.... 'Mimic'

Anyone who has even the slightest understanding of how evolution works, knows that its absurd, even if you could accelerate the cockroach evolution the way they did, you will not get the result they got because it is the interaction with the environment that steers evolution, so the most dramatic result you could hope to get would be cockroaches that have evolved to be able to eat laboratory equipment, that's it.

The whole idea is about as dumb as pointing a time accelerator at a mountain and have a river to cut through it, which in theory would work, but except there was no river there to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you can get past it and enjoy the movie, no problem!
this is problem with misconception about evolution which is treated as progress ladder.

"more" evolved organism is better than the older one.

Which is complete nonsense. And is present in so many tv shows (like star trek) books or games.
Post edited November 29, 2016 by lukaszthegreat
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mystikmind2000: Could animals wipe out humans any other way? With just mammals and birds, even if they became super intelligent? No.

Bring the insect kingdom on board, controlled by super intelligence, infiltration of human bodies, infiltration of technology possible, now its getting far more deadly! Yea, plausible now!

Bring micro biology on board = GAME OVER
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Pheace: I think you're being extremely optimistic here. Rats, mice, cats, dogs etc, they could seriously wipe out a large part of humanity overnight and be an extreme risk for a long, long time. Especially the first two as you'd need a serious stronghold to keep those out.

Insect realm is already the instant game over step. No way we'd survive that.
Nope. Mammals and birds got no chance to directly wipe out humans.... Think about ww2.... look at what was thrown at Germany to defeat it, can mammals wage any kind of campaign of destruction like that? Hell no!

They could devastate the food chain and millions would die from starvation.... but gee, it would be great to be Indian at that time since 90% of the population there already vegetarian! Or Japanese... screw beef and chicken, still plenty of fish!

Even with insects on board, there would still be plenty of ways for large populations of humans to survive.... but if you got microbiology on board, straight away you wipe out every human that is not sealed away in a vacuum environment.... and how many humans at any given time are in such a place? NOT VERY MANY!
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Pheace: I think you're being extremely optimistic here. Rats, mice, cats, dogs etc, they could seriously wipe out a large part of humanity overnight and be an extreme risk for a long, long time. Especially the first two as you'd need a serious stronghold to keep those out.

Insect realm is already the instant game over step. No way we'd survive that.
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lukaszthegreat: behind the scene intelligence controlling animals like rodents could certainly wipe us out.

Food. Most of our food is not in the shops, cans, etc but in grain sheds, fields or are walking.

If all mammals and birds (so chickens) coordinated in trying to wipe us out I could imagine them being able to starve most of the humanity.

I still doubt that they would have won as we are clever bunch of folks. but hey. chimpanzees can drive tanks and operate miniguns so if they are actually as clever as humans. Maybe they can win?
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mystikmind2000: I just remembered another good movie with a 100% illogical story plot.... 'Mimic'

Anyone who has even the slightest understanding of how evolution works, knows that its absurd, even if you could accelerate the cockroach evolution the way they did, you will not get the result they got because it is the interaction with the environment that steers evolution, so the most dramatic result you could hope to get would be cockroaches that have evolved to be able to eat laboratory equipment, that's it.

The whole idea is about as dumb as pointing a time accelerator at a mountain and have a river to cut through it, which in theory would work, but except there was no river there to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you can get past it and enjoy the movie, no problem!
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lukaszthegreat: this is problem with misconception about evolution which is treated as progress ladder.

"more" evolved organism is better than the older one.

Which is complete nonsense. And is present in so many tv shows (like star trek) books or games.
All good points except for the chimps part.... i am pretty sure the world has far more extremists running around with weapons, even tanks right now in numbers greater than the entire population of chimps! And although they cause trouble, its nothing against world population growth.
Post edited November 29, 2016 by mystikmind2000
They don't call it the BOOB TUBE (not the pron version) for nothing. I would have said IDIOT BOX, but I didn't want to be too nebulous.
I watched the season 1 first for the zoo thematic, but I decided to go to the final episode just for Nora Arnezeder, such a beautiful actress.
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mystikmind2000: Nope. Mammals and birds got no chance to directly wipe out humans.... Think about ww2.... look at what was thrown at Germany to defeat it, can mammals wage any kind of campaign of destruction like that? Hell no!

They could devastate the food chain and millions would die from starvation.... but gee, it would be great to be Indian at that time since 90% of the population there already vegetarian! Or Japanese... screw beef and chicken, still plenty of fish!

Even with insects on board, there would still be plenty of ways for large populations of humans to survive.... but if you got microbiology on board, straight away you wipe out every human that is not sealed away in a vacuum environment.... and how many humans at any given time are in such a place? NOT VERY MANY!
The fact that you're thinking about a war is where you're already making a mistake. With rats and mice you're not fighting an enemy you can clearly see, you're not fighting an enemy you can throw enough bullets at. Rats and mice are around in massive numbers and can keep reproducing at a terrifying rate, but more importantly, you can not keep them out. You can not hole in your trench and keep back mice and rats, you can not be in houses or barracks and be safe from them. The only places where you'd be safe is in pretty much hermetically sealed buildings or bunkers etc which means the rest of the world is free roam for them to live, thrive, grow, as well as all the other animals. And while you may not perceive a rat or mouse as an imminent threat, you've probably never seen them viciously throw themselves at you with intent to kill, let alone if there's hundreds/thousands of them. Most animals are a hell of a lot more dangerous than we think they are simply because they're generally not out to kill us.
Post edited November 29, 2016 by Pheace
Most sci-fi on the screen is bad or awful :-( giving the genre a bad name. If Nobel price laureate Doris Lessing could write it, it cannot be all bad in written form.
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mystikmind2000: Nope. Mammals and birds got no chance to directly wipe out humans.... Think about ww2.... look at what was thrown at Germany to defeat it, can mammals wage any kind of campaign of destruction like that? Hell no!

They could devastate the food chain and millions would die from starvation.... but gee, it would be great to be Indian at that time since 90% of the population there already vegetarian! Or Japanese... screw beef and chicken, still plenty of fish!

Even with insects on board, there would still be plenty of ways for large populations of humans to survive.... but if you got microbiology on board, straight away you wipe out every human that is not sealed away in a vacuum environment.... and how many humans at any given time are in such a place? NOT VERY MANY!
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Pheace: The fact that you're thinking about a war is where you're already making a mistake. With rats and mice you're not fighting an enemy you can clearly see, you're not fighting an enemy you can throw enough bullets at. Rats and mice are around in massive numbers and can keep reproducing at a terrifying rate, but more importantly, you can not keep them out. You can not hole in your trench and keep back mice and rats, you can not be in houses or barracks and be safe from them. The only places where you'd be safe is in pretty much hermetically sealed buildings or bunkers etc which means the rest of the world is free roam for them to live, thrive, grow, as well as all the other animals. And while you may not perceive a rat or mouse as an imminent threat, you've probably never seen them viciously throw themselves at you with intent to kill, let alone if there's hundreds/thousands of them. Most animals are a hell of a lot more dangerous than we think they are simply because they're generally not out to kill us.
Huh?

Ahhhh, any average building, if rats found a way in, they could not attack on mass because the hole is a choke point where you could easily kill them.... They did get it right in the movie is the rats attacking from the elevator, since they need a large mass of numbers in one wave to be able to attack. Even then they could not kill a human who did not panic - stay on the move, prevent them climbing up.... make your way through a door, close it behind you and kill the stragglers. Sure its gonna hurt, but if you remain calm, the rats got no chance. Its like that idiot on Jurassic park that got eaten by the little dinosaurs.... if he had remained calm, he would have easily been able to survive.
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mystikmind2000: Huh?

Ahhhh, any average building, if rats found a way in, they could not attack on mass because the hole is a choke point where you could easily kill them.... They did get it right in the movie is the rats attacking from the elevator, since they need a large mass of numbers in one wave to be able to attack. Even then they could not kill a human who did not panic - stay on the move, prevent them climbing up.... make your way through a door, close it behind you and kill the stragglers. Sure its gonna hurt, but if you remain calm, the rats got no chance. Its like that idiot on Jurassic park that got eaten by the little dinosaurs.... if he had remained calm, he would have easily been able to survive.
Dude no... rats alone can crawl through holes the size of a nickle, they can chew through concrete and even sheet steal. In any normal house you're a goner because you can not rest, you can not sleep. There are no safe spaces in most of our urban society. You'd have to have specifically designed buildings to keep them out and that still means the rest of the world is free game. You're not fending off one attack where you run into another room and live, you're fending off a continuous unending attack from a lifeform that's continually replenishing itself. It'd be the real life embodiment of the zerg.
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Themken: Most sci-fi on the screen is bad or awful :-( giving the genre a bad name. If Nobel price laureate Doris Lessing could write it, it cannot be all bad in written form.
'most' sci fi on the screen?? I cannot think of any sci fi that was this bad i had to stop watching it? I generally enjoy any and all sci fi, i mean i cannot even think of one single sci fi that was bad..... oh well ok, yes there is always Superman 3 !!! lol
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mystikmind2000: Huh?

Ahhhh, any average building, if rats found a way in, they could not attack on mass because the hole is a choke point where you could easily kill them.... They did get it right in the movie is the rats attacking from the elevator, since they need a large mass of numbers in one wave to be able to attack. Even then they could not kill a human who did not panic - stay on the move, prevent them climbing up.... make your way through a door, close it behind you and kill the stragglers. Sure its gonna hurt, but if you remain calm, the rats got no chance. Its like that idiot on Jurassic park that got eaten by the little dinosaurs.... if he had remained calm, he would have easily been able to survive.
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Pheace: Dude no... rats alone can crawl through holes the size of a nickle, they can chew through concrete and even sheet steal. In any normal house you're a goner because you can not rest, you can not sleep. There are no safe spaces in most of our urban society. You'd have to have specifically designed buildings to keep them out and that still means the rest of the world is free game. You're not fending off one attack where you run into another room and live, you're fending off a continuous unending attack from a lifeform that's continually replenishing itself. It'd be the real life embodiment of the zerg.
When it comes to sleep and rest, that is where you need safety in numbers, so you can rotate. There is always people blocking holes and killing rats. Human populations will naturally gather together in such an event, so then easily defended. Then the other big problem with a plague is that it always burns up available resources super fast, even dead humans... so there is no way the numbers needed can be sustained for very long, unlike the Zerg, rats need allot of food for their body weight, its going to be very easy to outlast such a plague.

So rats could never win with direct engagement, not gonna happen. They can temporarily destroy the food supply, but again, once the food supply is gone, the rat plague will quickly burn out, humans can outlast that easily and rebuild the food supply..... sure plenty of poor people will starve, huh, what else is new?
https://youtu.be/IOwinLWrEIw

https://youtu.be/r3RLmErp43k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw8jYzd-dqc

Pleasant sleep ;)
I have actually seen a mouse plague with my own eyes when i was a kid visiting a friends farm.

Funny how exciting things like that are for kids, i had lots of fun.... i also discovered you can fling a mouse in the air by its tail and that kills it when it hits the ground.

Another interesting thing... i used to have a bird aviary when i was a kid, mice used to always get in and steal the bird food. I had a terrier dog, she used to dig all day at the aviary and cry because she was so excited by the mice. So i got a live catch cage and used to catch live mice then release in the yard for my dog, one quick snap and dead! My dog would get so excited, she would bark and run and jump up on me before i can release the mice.

I don't know why its so exciting for a terrier to kill a mouse, crazy.
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mystikmind2000: So rats could never win with direct engagement, not gonna happen. They can temporarily destroy the food supply, but again, once the food supply is gone, the rat plague will quickly burn out, humans can outlast that easily and rebuild the food supply..... sure plenty of poor people will starve, huh, what else is new?
Endless stream of attacking rats=food supply
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mystikmind2000: So rats could never win with direct engagement, not gonna happen. They can temporarily destroy the food supply, but again, once the food supply is gone, the rat plague will quickly burn out, humans can outlast that easily and rebuild the food supply..... sure plenty of poor people will starve, huh, what else is new?
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jamotide: Endless stream of attacking rats=food supply
Oh yea, good point! The greater trouble would come after all the rats died and you are left with a destroyed food supply.