Crosmando: No true RPG fan plays Oblivion and Skyturd. Go back to your Xbox amok

Crosmando: Personally? I found Oblivion to be the probably the worst RPG I have ever played. Coming from the weird and fantastic setting of MW, and then seeing this utterly soulless bland fantasy setting, tiny maps, terrible graphics (compared to MW), terrible forced voice-acting, blasphemous scaling system, ridiculously simplified leveling and character system.

Oblivion utterly raped the TES series, and in so doing it raped a part of me. IT can never be undone, it will always ~exist~. No one who likes Oblivion can be forgiven, I'm sorry that's just how it is.

Crosmando: Yes they are. Unless you have a fully realized stat system which governs how the player's character interacts with the world, it's just digital LARPing.

But that's essentially what the average Bethesda fanboy thinks an RPG is, they probably do not even know about tabletop RPGs played with pen, paper and dice. They like Bethesda games because they do not have stats as the primary governing force, so they can ~do anything~ without their character needing the skills to do so, they can go beat up anyone in the world from lvl 1 because of the dumb scaling system.

That's what your average Bethsoft fanboy is, they are manchildren who want to be ego-patted by the devs and told their the "Dragonborn" or Chosen One or whatever, and they can do anything. They don't want serious CRPGs with real difficulty and are based on character skill.

Like that Skyturd DLC Hearthfire, they are the type of gamers who think an RPG is being able to have a house in-game, farm wheat every day and bake bread, so they can make-believe they are actually living in a fantasy world. The type who would rather run around their backyard dressing up as a wizard shouting "Lightning bolt!" than play a proper game of D&D inside.
Crosmando: It is the general consensus of the cRPG community that Oblivion was bad. The only defenders I know are console gamers (those who played it on Xbox) who never played any of it's predecessors, or just mainstream gamers in general.

Crosmando: Number crunching is what RPG's are all about, if you don't have numbers governing the rules behind roleplaying, then it isn't roleplaying, it's LARPing, make-pretend.

That's why when you create your character in Daggerfall, you're given a huge, huge amount of attributes, skills, classes and stats to roll. But when you create one in say Skyrim, you are given the choice of gender, race and then a billion options to adjust the skin color and exact shape of their nose and jawline. ie completely cosmetic Barbie doll dress-up stuff.

An RPG can only be really judged based on how well it adapts or simulates a P&P adventure.
Crosmando: If I meant the dex specifically I would have included Morrowind as being crap :)

Crosmando: They put MW threads in the Console part of the forum, but of course opinions are always varied on any game

Crosmando: Okay, here's an example, this is Skyrim character generation:
http://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/images/395316-1320932695.jpg

OMG LOOK AT ALL THOSE STATS!!!111

And here's DF:
http://www.oldgames.sk/images/oldgames/rpg/TES.Daggerfall/daggerfall-005.png
Crosmando: Yes, and the game does have elements that suggest "consolization", for example aiming was clearly designed in DF for mouse, while in MW it seems to be both designed for gamepad and mouse, making MW combat feel more "automatic" and less precise while in DF you could use different types of melee attacks, and also aim them.

Crosmando: That's not my point. Of course people like to "role play" differently. If you want to play a dexterous sneaky thief, or a dumb brutish barbarian, a charismatic singing bard, then your GM (or in the case of a computer game, the game itself) should accommodate that. Asking to be outside the rules that govern RP (whether in a tabletop or computer game) isn't acceptable. Unless you play all your computer games with noclip and godmode on.

However, it doesn't really matter, Skyrim is an action-adventure game not a real RPG.
Crosmando: Passwall or Levitate, which is better and why?

Crosmando: Not sure how I even get into these arguments