It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
MajicMan: Well, the point of this isn't really about filling out your wishlist or collection. Sure you might get a game on your wishlist, but the real value comes from spending $3 and getting something you would not have tried at all.

This is pretty standard practice across the board in life. Try a free sample of food product X and see if you like it. Daily meal specials, product samples, sales. Halloween - I would never buy that candy, but I will take it and eat it for free.

If RTS or strategy games aren't your deal and you would never buy them for $40 or even on sale for $10-$15, a $3 chance is not a big deal to play a $40 game and give it a try.

You can buy the game of your choice outright, it would be real gambling if it was the only way to get certain games.
You are mixing a few different things here. I absolutely don't mind the idea of encouraging people to try something they don't otherwise. Or wouldn't consider. But this is not like free samples, given you pay for the piñata first. And that's where the crux is and why there is a strong aspect of gambling in this. It'd be utterly feasible to, say, give everyone three tries on a piñata daily, for free, but leave it your choice if you commit to buying them at that $3 price. Would have all the positives of encouraging people to look at things they don't, the surprise of something they didn't think of, and a price that entices. The gambling bit comes as you go in blind, like those scratch cards that guarantee a win.

3 dollars isn't much, but people certainly gamble. See the 'against better knowledge' or 'tried again nonetheless' posts that pop up in the tracker thread. That's people gambling - and the sums add up. So on that end I'd wish GOG would do these different. Came up with two suggestions without spending much time thinking them through in this debate now..
avatar
IFW: However, I really wish I could give/trade games away I am not interested in.
avatar
harkejuice: I really wish I could just give the game I got away rather than risk winding up with another copy of a single player game I already beat years ago. Pitfalls of digital I guess.
Side note: There is the possibility of contacting GOG and asking for games you don't want to be converted to gift codes, if you can be bothered. I've done it myself with two pinata games, and it's a fairly simple and quick process.
avatar
UncleOvid: I kinda love these stupid sales, even though I don't really ever participate. And I love the irony of gamers complaining about the 'tiny dopamine shot' that a game company is using to sell games. That dopamine shot is, arguably, central to how games work -- like, all of them. Every loot grab, level up, dead boss, cross-field goal, rocket jump, sick gank, tea-bag, and shop purchase is the delivery system. Seems like people are only fussing about it now that someone made a game with money in it -- or, as I see it, made the mundane act of purchasing into a game.
How dare GOG tries alternative sale types! They're literally voluntarily stealing money from us in exchange for games!

avatar
UncleOvid: Now, the reason I'm not playing pinata is 'coz I'm a Linux fella, and, just glancing over the tracking list -- well, it just looks like even if I do get some peach from my wishlist, it probably won't have a Linux installer. Shoot, I rarely even grab freebies when they're up anymore: I'm already disappointed that the sure-I'll-try-it-if-it's-free 'Deadlight' is Windows-only.

So yes, this is all a Trojan horse for my "MORE LOVE FOR LINUX" rant, but I know Yepoleb feels me, right?
I'm actually a Linux only gamer too, but not a native purist. I'm fine with getting Windows games, as most of them are already playable or will be in the near future using Wine. If they won't be, it was worth giving them a try for the extremely cheap price. I understand though that many others do not want to mess with Wine or take the risk of getting a Windows exclusive title.
avatar
UncleOvid: Here's one: I find it really weird that everyone insists on characterizing this sale as 'gambling'. It doesn't seem that way at all to me. It's a three-dollar grab-bag; you're guaranteed a return (tech bugs on launch notwithstanding), which is guaranteed to be -- base price -- worth more than three dollars. Shoot, that's less gambling than a carnival crane game. And a far cry from going to Monte Carlo and paying money for the chance to handle cards and maybe be given your money back.

A few people have remarked on the 'not my GOG!' temperament that always seems to flare whenever there's a 'gimmicky' sale (like 'Insomnia'That dopamine shot is, arguably, central to how games work -- like, all of them. Every loot grab, level up, dead boss, cross-field goal, rocket jump, sick gank, tea-bag, and shop purchase is the delivery system. Seems like people are only fussing about it now that someone made a game with money in it -- or, as I see it, made the mundane act of purchasing into a game.
But the moment you involve real money you move from playing a game to gambling; even if the deal is good. Playing poker without money is a game. Add real money to it and you add a different dimension. And sadly - otherwise gambling addictions and gambling debts that exist - for some people with bad consequences. Computer games dopamine is largely innocent like the former. This encouraged folks to take risks with real money and I'd rather GOG find a different way of making sales interesting.

And again there are people certainly gambling and regretting some of the outcome, if you read through the threads. Most don't mind given that 3 dollars really is disposable money to them - but it doesn't sit quite right with me as a way to generate sales.
avatar
UncleOvid: UncleOvid said...
avatar
Yepoleb: How dare GOG tries alternative sale types! They're literally voluntarily stealing money from us in exchange for games!
Oof. "Literally voluntarily stealing...in exchange". The English teacher in me... But we don't need to hear from him...

But yeah. I still don't see how this is different from, say, paying three bucks to spin the free fries wheel at a McDonald's promotion. Which seems a) pretty innocuous, and b) not at all gambling. Which is to say, I guess I can see a purely semantic, if-you-play-the-game-with-real-money-then way -- but that's boring. Unless we're saying all commercial activity is potentially gambling, which... whoa...

avatar
UncleOvid: UncleOvid said...
avatar
Yepoleb: I'm actually a Linux only gamer too, but not a native purist. I'm fine with getting Windows games, as most of them are already playable or will be in the near future using Wine. If they won't be, it was worth giving them a try for the extremely cheap price. I understand though that many others do not want to mess with Wine or take the risk of getting a Windows exclusive title.
I'm a WinTenpocalypse Convert, rather than a Linux Tinker-Coder. I have three different WINE-type bottling apps, and roundabout half (aw jeez) of my (aw JEEZ) 100+ library are Linux compatible. Lots of my more recent acquisitions (and recent indie games!) have been Linux playable, but I kinda thought part of the GOG mission was to rehab old games for modern systems. So, yippee, I guess, that I can play Bio Menace; but still bummed that Giants: Citizen Kabuto was such a glitchy mess...

I guess if you look at it that way, it IS all gambling.
avatar
HereForTheBeer: Same argument was raised the last time they did a Piñata sale, and yet here we are with another one. I think that tells us gOg's position on the matter.
avatar
tinyE: WAIT WAIT WAIT

THEY DID THIS BEFORE!?

Where the hell was I? XD
I tell you that people are really uptight on this forum to not find any humor in your post.
avatar
tinyE: WAIT WAIT WAIT

THEY DID THIS BEFORE!?

Where the hell was I? XD
avatar
qwixter: I tell you that people are really uptight on this forum to not find any humor in your post.
It kind of wasn't a joke. I keep going into rooms and forgetting why the hell I went there, and now this. :P
Post edited August 16, 2017 by tinyE
avatar
qwixter: I tell you that people are really uptight on this forum to not find any humor in your post.
avatar
tinyE: It kind of wasn't a joke. I keep going into rooms and forgetting why the hell I went there, and now this. :P
But you live here!

If that happens to you in the future, just go to the bathroom. If you're old, it's most likely the destination, and it will give you some time to sort out if it was a different destination.
avatar
MajicMan: Well, the point of this isn't really about filling out your wishlist or collection. Sure you might get a game on your wishlist, but the real value comes from spending $3 and getting something you would not have tried at all.

This is pretty standard practice across the board in life. Try a free sample of food product X and see if you like it. Daily meal specials, product samples, sales. Halloween - I would never buy that candy, but I will take it and eat it for free.

If RTS or strategy games aren't your deal and you would never buy them for $40 or even on sale for $10-$15, a $3 chance is not a big deal to play a $40 game and give it a try.

You can buy the game of your choice outright, it would be real gambling if it was the only way to get certain games.
avatar
Mnemon: You are mixing a few different things here. I absolutely don't mind the idea of encouraging people to try something they don't otherwise. Or wouldn't consider. But this is not like free samples, given you pay for the piñata first. And that's where the crux is and why there is a strong aspect of gambling in this. It'd be utterly feasible to, say, give everyone three tries on a piñata daily, for free, but leave it your choice if you commit to buying them at that $3 price. Would have all the positives of encouraging people to look at things they don't, the surprise of something they didn't think of, and a price that entices. The gambling bit comes as you go in blind, like those scratch cards that guarantee a win.

3 dollars isn't much, but people certainly gamble. See the 'against better knowledge' or 'tried again nonetheless' posts that pop up in the tracker thread. That's people gambling - and the sums add up. So on that end I'd wish GOG would do these different. Came up with two suggestions without spending much time thinking them through in this debate now..
You still pay on a discount, you still pay on a sale, you still pay for grab bags, you still pay on Bogo's, etc. And not all gambling involves money. You can gamble products or services or personal humiliation. The point being that the Pinata sale is a marketing product to get people to try different things, like any other promotion.

You can buy stickers and junk from the turn-style and bubble gum machines, but you don't know what sticker you get or what color gum you are going to get or little prize. but that is not gambling. You have no chance of "losing" at this. you will get one of the products mentioned - guaranteed. It may not be what you want most, but you will get what is advertised.
I'd say that what separates this from gambling is that gambling inherently involves a risk of losing your investment, either partially or totally; here, you get what you pay for -- a game on sale for three dollars. A game you might not like, granted, but that's the 'fun risk' that people are enjoying.

Another way I might look at is it's like a fund drive reward: "Pitch us three bucks and get a grab in the bag! Try something new! Support indie games!" Which is the point, right?-- that last bit, I mean. Granted, this is a transnational digital corporate subsidiary, not your local non-profit radio station, so the analogy only goes so far. But I actually support GOG as a philosophy, not just a business; so, if they're gonna keep rebuilding old games, providing a supportive market for new indies, and promoting consumer-centric digital business practices (despite, yes, the occasional PR goof and inevitable Trouble With the Fans), I say let 'em play Three Dollar Surprise a couple times a year.

avatar
Mnemon: But the moment you involve real money you move from playing a game to gambling; even if the deal is good. Playing poker without money is a game. Add real money to it and you add a different dimension. And sadly - otherwise gambling addictions and gambling debts that exist - for some people with bad consequences. Computer games dopamine is largely innocent like the former. This encouraged folks to take risks with real money and I'd rather GOG find a different way of making sales interesting.

And again there are people certainly gambling and regretting some of the outcome, if you read through the threads. Most don't mind given that 3 dollars really is disposable money to them - but it doesn't sit quite right with me as a way to generate sales.
Sure. Totally. Gambling addiction is a thing. And so is shopping addiction, but I don't think you'd advocate closing the store.

My (other) glib, unconsidered response is that, as with most addictions, sufferers would be wise to exercise discretion, and everyone else should exercise compassion. It should be noted that these are short-term, purely optional promotions that you don't have to play if they bother you. That said, are these 'sale games' triggering for some people? Is a gimmick biased or unfair or some other turn-off (I'm thinking of the 'ping' problems in the... First Insomnia Sale?)? Could we -- not to get all Obama-y -- do it better?

Seriously. Do you think we could come up with a 'sale game' that people would think is more fair and more fun and would be more liable to engage people more? Here, I'll start: What if pinata games were limited (or prioritized) according to your wishlist? As in, I don't know what I'll get, but I know I'll like it (and it'll be Linux native!)
Post edited August 16, 2017 by UncleOvid
avatar
kohlrak: Then why the technical difficulties?
More than your own fault. This is false advertising.
Where do you get false advertising? All the games so far in the tracking thread have a base price of $5.99 or more.
As usual with cases like this, the law doesn't keep up with the trends.

This is gambling, but not technically gambling, because gambling falls under scrutiny, regulation and age restriction.

We need laws that regulate things like that soon. Sales like this, loot boxes, F2P microtransactions are preying on people's instincts and exploiting them. Especially the younger ones. This has to stop.
Every decision you make, every action you take (or don't take) happens under uncertain conditions; therefore, it carries a degree of risk; therefore, it is gambling and should be banned.
avatar
Starmaker: Every decision you make, every action you take (or don't take) happens under uncertain conditions; therefore, it carries a degree of risk; therefore, it is gambling and should be banned.
Everything is gambling so nothing is gambling. Great argument, senpai!
avatar
Starmaker: Every decision you make, every action you take (or don't take) happens under uncertain conditions; therefore, it carries a degree of risk; therefore, it is gambling and should be banned.
avatar
keeveek: Everything is gambling so nothing is gambling. Great argument, senpai!
No, keeveek-chan, you baka.

The gambling industry is harmful because of very specific qualities it doesn't share with other activities involving chance.
1. It has a broad appeal: money is highly liquid.
GOG gives you games to your account, which are for you, subject to the EULA and can't be resold. (Honestly, anyone who tries to make money reselling GOG codes deserves what's coming.)

2. It is false advertizing: gambling is presented as a way to make money, which is blatantly false.
GOG gives you the games it promised to give you. Pay money, get games. You might not like a game you bought, but that's also true of regular nonfree games unless you play one in its entirety for free somehow before buying (demos, friends, piracy).

3. It is a loop which doesn't produce anything of value.
The GOG sale is not a loop; pay money, get games, play games; your money goes to pay for productive labor.

4. It preys on the destitute.
GOG does not; if you don't have money for food and rent, a pinata isn't going to help you, and GOG doesn't pretend it will.

5. [added] There's no ceiling.
GOG only has a small selection of games; buying out the pinata inventory isn't going to ruin your life.
Post edited August 16, 2017 by Starmaker